The Creative Shift: Building Communities and Embracing New Educational Settings with Kirsty Hunter | Episode 17

In today's episode, we are joined by former BRIT School Deputy Head - turned Entrepreneur and Founder of The Creativity Clinic, Kirsty Hunter. Kirsty’s mission is huge – to destroy social and financial barriers to the arts and education, and to disrupt co-working and leisure spaces through the integration of the arts. Her aim is to provide a much-needed resource whilst creating meaningful and inclusive communities that offer an inter-generational approach to work, leisure and play.

Kirsty is currently on the journey to raise investment for her venture and in September 2022 she launched the outpatient’s arm of The Creativity Clinic; a firm designed to support educationalists, artists and corporates with creative approaches to strategic advantage, operations management, innovation and entrepreneurship through inclusive cultures and community led approaches. 

Our interview delves deep into the roots of Kirsty’s career with some of the world’s most recognised creative organisations, including her formative years at The BRIT School that have shaped her ideas around community, resilience, and the desire for a new approach to leisure and culture for all generations - including her innovative concept, the ‘15-min neighbourhoods’.

In this episode:

08:46 Why passion and connections are crucial, especially for students in the performing arts.

18:33 The Brit School ethos – why it’s a success and how the environment shapes its students.

22:01 Embracing tech and new ways of learning – how phone use in school can work with foundations of respect and responsibility.

27:10 Kirsty’s focus on community work, talent sharing, and its emotional impact on students.

46:48 The importance of social connections on mental health and performance.

54:42 Focus on community and connectivity – how social responsibility and coworking spaces are bridging the gap. 

01:00:10 Kirsty’s response to the demand for creative niche experiences despite funding challenges.

Connect with Kirsty here:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecreativityclinicuk

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kirstyhunterthecreativityclinic/

Please like, subscribe or follow, so you're notified of any new episodes coming up, and if you're keen to reach Rusty or Simon with any suggestions, feedback or comments, you can contact them via the show's LinkedIn page here:

 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-bouncebackability-podcast/

Transcript

Simon Ursell [00:00:00]:
Simon and Rusty here with the bounce back ability podcast. The podcast that explores how to deal with obstacles, setbacks, and challenges.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:00:07]:
Hope you enjoy the pod.

Simon Ursell [00:00:08]:
Looking forward to it. Listen on. Welcome to the podcast. Another beautiful sunny day here in London. Who have we got on, Rusty?

Rusty Earnshaw [00:00:18]:
Kirsty Hunter, legend from the Brit School. I know you wanted to get someone who had impacted young people's lives. Yeah. Kirsty has done that, and, obviously, Brit School is in my top one places to come visit.

Simon Ursell [00:00:32]:
Yeah. Well, I'm really excited to hear what she has to say because, yeah, that kind of environment is definitely fueling my bias, which I may say again.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:00:41]:
Let's, get her on the pod.

Simon Ursell [00:00:45]:
Welcome to the pod, Rusty. Who've we got on?

Rusty Earnshaw [00:00:47]:
Yeah. Good. Good. Good to see you, Simon. Appreciate your picture of a man with a pair of scissors and a plate.

Simon Ursell [00:00:52]:
That is outrageous. That's not a pair of scissors and a plate. That is clearly a sword and a shield.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:00:58]:
Maybe let Kurt maybe let Kirsty be the judge of this. Like, what does it look like the man is holding? A really

Simon Ursell [00:01:03]:
nice person, so she's gonna say swords.

Kirsty Hunter [00:01:05]:
It looks like a sword maybe with a very large guitar pick.

Simon Ursell [00:01:10]:
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. Okay. That's nice nicely handled, nicely negotiated. Yeah.

Simon Ursell [00:01:16]:
Slightly random start to the podcast.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:01:18]:
And I appreciate, the, random start. Kirsty, As I said, met you in one of my favorite places ever, still staying in touch. Definitely the best dressed person in the room as it stands.

Simon Ursell [00:01:32]:
You can't just say that. Where's where's the best place ever?

Rusty Earnshaw [00:01:36]:
BRIT School.

Simon Ursell [00:01:37]:
Okay.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:01:38]:
Selhurst near Crystal Palace in London.

Simon Ursell [00:01:41]:
Nice.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:01:41]:
I thought you were saying couldn't say she was the best dressed person, but

Kirsty Hunter [00:01:44]:
No. I I think I am, so I'm gonna take that. But

Simon Ursell [00:01:46]:
You are 100% the best dressed person.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:01:49]:
You don't have Simon's not here to your headphones on, and you have a retro Adidas top on.

Simon Ursell [00:01:54]:
So Yeah. You you're looking very cool. Rusty. Yeah. You look you look like Rusty.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:01:59]:
Athletic. Athletic.

Kirsty Hunter [00:02:02]:
Well, you're wearing athletic wear.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:02:03]:
I'm wearing athletic clothing. Sort of. I'm breathing I'm breathing in.

Simon Ursell [00:02:07]:
And a Patagonia hat that looks like an elephant ate it.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:02:11]:
Cool. Anyways, Kirsty's on the pod. Great to see you, Kirsty. How the devil are you?

Kirsty Hunter [00:02:15]:
Oh, very well. Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's, I'm hoping that I can stand up to, all of the previous guests that you've had.

Simon Ursell [00:02:21]:
Oh, definitely. Definitely. No doubt about it. So do you wanna tell us a little bit about yourself, bit of background, or share as much as you like?

Kirsty Hunter [00:02:28]:
Well, I could be here for hours, but we'll we'll let you come in at times. So I'm Kirsty Hunt. I am an entrepreneur on well, I'm I'm trying to be an entrepreneur. That's cool. I was teaching for 22 years.

Simon Ursell [00:02:43]:
 Wow. Lovely.

Kirsty Hunter [00:02:44]:
And, as Rusty said, we met at the, the amazing Brit School where I was, a deputy head at the time. We did some fun things there. But, yeah. Now moving on to, the creativity clinic, which is the sort of venture in trying to find spaces for people to come to get together where they would do creative leisure alongside other types of leisure. So that's sort of my my venture at the moment.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:03:11]:
And can I just so the reason so we were chatting about the pod and one of the things is around, like, young people and, resilience and balance packability? And, obviously having spent time with Kirsty and been to the Brit, like, just noticed lots of things about the place that, like, were probably different to other places. Now and again, I know you obviously got some reasonably famous alumni and, you know, it's just generally like, it always interests me into why it feels a little bit different to other places that I go that I have kids in.

Kirsty Hunter [00:03:41]:
Yeah. I mean, it it it's got some reasonable people that have come out of there. Yeah. 1 or 2. It's it's just a really special place. And I think that, like, as you walked in the in the walk through the through the doors and into the the walls, it's just the energy that you feel when you become in a space where everybody feels, you know, all of those words alongside safe and finding your tribe. That's really true. And there's a high level of talent, but actually it's it's the passion that you see in the room for the people there.

Kirsty Hunter [00:04:14]:
Because they're they're all wanting something. And actually, that energy that comes from that drive, that ambition in one space surrounded by great lecturers, teachers, you know, other people supporting, externally from industry creative industries. It's it makes it quite formidable.

Simon Ursell [00:04:37]:
I mean, I love the idea that I've never been to the British school, and it but it just sounds so great. I mean, I I don't know. It's it's definitely fuels Rusty's bias, I would suggest.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:04:47]:
I've written some words down while you were talking and prior to being told off by Simon for moving my microphone. Like I just see lots of kids that hopefully got a bit more purpose, think it's quite hard at those ages to go I've got a real passion for this, I want to do this. I think lots of like just deliberate practice, like definitely, like, confidence would be related to positive master experiences. I think it's high support.

Kirsty Hunter [00:05:14]:
Absolutely. Yeah.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:05:15]:
I think I noticed some kids that I thought you would get bullied in other schools.

Kirsty Hunter [00:05:21]:
I mean, I think you're right. Absolutely. I think there are people that would come and they would say express exactly that. I was bullied in my previous school or I couldn't be who I wanted to be or I couldn't study what I wanted to study. So, you know, arts education across the country has just been squashed. And for that, you've then got a huge number of people that want to go to this amazing space. Of course, they do because, you know, there's no arts provision or performing performing arts or musical theater. All of those things just don't really exist in many other schools or the teaching, is maybe not as good.

Kirsty Hunter [00:05:59]:
And then we had the facilities. So, yeah, that that whole sort of holistic support. And then you just find the most amazing quirky people. So they'd walk in the door in September and they'd start maybe they're 14 or 16 when they join. And by the October half term, they've changed their hair color. You've got boys wearing dresses, girls wearing commando suits, whatever it might be. And they can just feel free to do that. And everybody just walks past as if it's just, you know, a normal day.

Kirsty Hunter [00:06:30]:
And that is quite a wonderful thing, you know. People really are exactly, you know, experimenting with who they are at that young age, and not having to be sort of afraid of judgment or criticism from anybody else.

Simon Ursell [00:06:45]:
And that just say, success wise, peep people love this sort of stuff. I'm not sure how interested I am, but I'm just thinking about people listening to the podcast. In terms of the outcomes from kids that go to the Brit school, it's pretty successful, isn't it? I mean, there's some I mean, you you know, you're gonna be modest, but I think we should pick it up. What what do you what it what are what are the can you give us some examples?

Kirsty Hunter [00:07:09]:
Yeah. I was just see if I can remember some stats as well. But, I mean, you know, it's a small place, Selhurst, as you mentioned. Not too far from East Croydon. People think it's in Central London, but it's not. But it's a free state school. People aren't paying to go there. They come from all walks of life.

Kirsty Hunter [00:07:30]:
People travel 90 minutes to get there, in some cases. Some come as far as Brighton, Guilford. And so you've got this real kind of mixture of wonderful artists and from that, you know, the likes of Adele, Amy Winehouse, Rae more recently who's just smashed it with 6 bit awards and absolutely killing it. Tom Holland, Chris Jumbo, Jessie J. I mean, the list of those people in the spotlight is hugely significant. But then you can't forget all of the people that are backstage working, you know, or West End Musicals. We've got people probably in every single show in the West End. And so it's it is quite incredible.

Kirsty Hunter [00:08:16]:
But then you've got those people who have gone on to work Google or Apple or Netflix, and they're behind the scenes as well. So they're just everywhere in the industry, wherever you go. I met somebody earlier today, and he said, oh, my my cofounder went to the British school 10 years ago. So they you literally just come across and they and they they find each other. But there is huge amounts of success. And I and I think that there's an element of the community that's created there. That drive. Yes.

Kirsty Hunter [00:08:46]:
They have to have a certain something when they arrive. So it's not like they're you're sort of growing them from absolutely nothing. But genuinely, that is the passion that they need to get in rather than they have to already be a certain skill level. And so it is. It's really incredible. And it, of course, certainly helps. You've got opportunities to go and see the theater, to go to see the shows in the school and outside, or you've got the opportunity to connect with some people in the industry, hear from those people that have been there and done it. And the alumni now, you know, 30 years on, are coming coming back and they and continue to give.

Kirsty Hunter [00:09:27]:
You know, Jessie Jo walks around and spends the day with the students and that is inspiring. So it's just sort of forever giving back. And that has been quite, a lovely thing to watch.

Simon Ursell [00:09:38]:
That's so cool. And I guess linked to that then, you said it's a special place, and it's an unusual place. And people turn up and however they wanna wear, however they wanna present themselves, that's cool and that's a really that's a really great thing. Yeah, absolutely. Given the success, isn't it weird that that's special? Shouldn't it be most environments we're going into, you can come in a way that is works for you. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't matter how we label it. Yeah. But it's a but it just say I mean, we we talk about environment a lot on our platform.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:10:17]:
Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Yep. Mustafa's here. Mustafa's Mustafa

Simon Ursell [00:10:20]:
is not about Mustafa.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:10:21]:
It's not about Mustafa.

Simon Ursell [00:10:23]:
It's it's about it's about the Brit School. Yep. That shouldn't be special. And if you are trying to create a very, very, high performance environment, as miss Stafford would say, if you're trying to create that, then creating a environment that is accepting of any presentation Yep. Will get the best out of those people and will lead to

Kirsty Hunter [00:10:48]:
A 100%.

Simon Ursell [00:10:48]:
Unbelievable amounts of success. So 100%. To say everybody's gotta learn how to do x, y, and zed exams to a certain level, whatever the sort of standard state school, approach is. It just doesn't make sense to me. Is what what would you say to them? I'm leading you here, which is a bit unfair.

Kirsty Hunter [00:11:06]:
No. Well, I mean, I've, you know, worked in education for a long time. PE teacher initially, moved as into a dance teacher. I've worked in Southeast London for most of that time, 18 years. And and there were some great things about some of the other schools I've worked in. But that push and drive to sort of put the square peg in the round hole where we are jumping through loop hoops to get people to sort of achieve these academic grades. And that might be absolutely right for some of those people. But that level of intelligence for creativity, you know, is you're not you're not told that you're intelligent if you're creative.

Kirsty Hunter [00:11:44]:
You're told that you're creative. And you're not really told that you're creative. If you're intelligent, you're intelligent. And I think that that crossover is some of the most intelligent people I know are creatives and what they can do. And when you put people of like minds together and you do create an environment, I think that's both physical environment and social environments. The crossover of both of those things is is where the magic happens.

Simon Ursell [00:12:10]:
Yeah. And, I mean, I'm think I'm thinking now about my business, Tyler Grange, and other businesses I support. Every time, we're gonna wanna recruit people like me, entrepreneurs, wanna recruit people that have that passion and drive. Passion's a really overused word in job interviews. Yeah. But it's but it's overused for a reason. The grades yeah. Okay.

Simon Ursell [00:12:34]:
You got some grades. Fine. I wanna know about you. I wanna know what you're interested in. I wanna know what you're gonna bring to my organization, how you're gonna change us, you know, how we're gonna help support you, but how are you gonna come and change us? Yeah. Most people I know in leadership roles in organizations doing well, they're not that interested in grades. No. In fact, there's there's a lot of programs at big organizations right now, I think I'm right in saying, that are saying, well, we're not gonna worry about degrees or anything like that.

Simon Ursell [00:13:02]:
We're just gonna start recruiting people who match the type of person we wanna attract. It sounds like the Brit School, for what you're saying and what you're trying to do as well, is create those kinds of, young people who are themselves.

Kirsty Hunter [00:13:20]:
Yeah. I mean, you just think about the opportunities that people have got out there and they're trying to find a route and, sort of, a career pathway or going on a straight line of this is how I get to success, when actually it's about networking, it's about talking to people, it's about trying to find different avenues and routes and demonstrate how you can do, you know, something in a way that demonstrates that passion. How do you show passion? You can put it on a piece of paper, can't you? But how do you show passion and actually act on what you're doing? And I think that that's where those young people who are showing up every single day, but then trying to really make waves with, you know, their their self starters. They're gonna go and do it. If they wanna do something, they're gonna do it. And they're 18 year olds or 16 year olds or 14 year olds. But then they're supported do that. So so many times when you're younger, you're not given the opportunity sort of like, you know, you're not you're not old enough yet or we're not maybe gonna listen to your viewpoints.

Kirsty Hunter [00:14:21]:
But actually getting those viewpoints is like, I'd I'd listen to an 18 year old all day long giving me advice on something that I need to learn about. So lifelong learning maybe not necessarily the academic grades, but the the willingness to continue to learn, to continue to reach out to other people, and utilize those communities that you're within is something that is quite powerful in business, I think.

Simon Ursell [00:14:47]:
Yeah. Sure. And just just to be so sorry, Rusty, just to be sort of really clear, academic grades have a place.

Kirsty Hunter [00:14:53]:
Of course.

Simon Ursell [00:14:54]:
And they do matter in some context, but it just it's just possibly got a slightly more prominence, massive prominence, whereas other skills that are sometimes way more important are aren't quite given that prominence. And then people wonder why there's not success in later life.

Kirsty Hunter [00:15:12]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I'm a true believer in academic, you know, sort of get gaining those qualifications not necessarily for the sake of the qualification, but for the fact of learning and being able to really broaden your mind. You know, just, you know, I've just completed an MBA and it was an amazing opportunity to do that because it took me into completely new, sort of, worlds where you get bogged down in in one industry and you and and then you surround yourself with those people in that industry. And so it was so nice to then do something so completely different that sort of opens your eyes up to all of these things that you'd never even thought of or considered before because you're sort of stuck in the operation. So absolutely is a place for the academics. But creativity in business is something that is kind of rising in the chance of what people are looking for. That alongside empathy and, you know, those analytical skills, whilst they're really important, the sort of actually, are they as important as what they used to maybe be considered? So

Rusty Earnshaw [00:16:17]:
I just wrote down a few clues I can remember from being in the Brits school. So one was and when you start speaking something about it being different to the schools, I saw pretty much every single member of staff trying to, like, light fires for people.

Kirsty Hunter [00:16:31]:
Yeah.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:16:31]:
So,

Simon Ursell [00:16:34]:
What what do you mean by light fires?

Rusty Earnshaw [00:16:35]:
Well, I don't wanna have a go at my daughter's physics teacher, but I will. Bit of feedback. The girls don't like the spreadsheets. Just being asked to fill out sheets and the lessons that are boring when you could be like head of explosions, couldn't you, in physics and chemistry. So I think I saw teachers that were just like lighting fires in people's like eyes about like just how what is possible and, yeah, again, just probably just could see that in their eyes as well, like their their passion for it. The other thing was like there's the absence of hierarchy. Yeah. So one of the things that I've heard you talk about is like and and Stuart's well around just this hierarchy leads to bullying.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:17:20]:
You know, teachers, trusted students as you are today. Yeah. Appreciating it. I think last time I went in Stuart, it was barefoot.

Kirsty Hunter [00:17:28]:
Yes. He he did sometimes do that.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:17:30]:
Yeah. I love a barefoot. Then, you know,

Simon Ursell [00:17:34]:
just athlete's footman.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:17:35]:
Just, names, you know, first name terms, not so all that type of stuff. Now the other thing that I thought was like one of the biggest clues is when stuff goes well or not well for kids how do other kids react? Actually would make me feel quite emotional this because I think kindness is the most important thing. Mhmm. I think another quote I've heard is like without kindness there is no creativity. Yeah. So the minute you're unkind when someone messes up, they're not gonna try that again, are they? So I just saw lots of kids that when stuff went well or less well for other kids Yeah. They were like there to support them or to, you know, high five them or whatever that might be. So people often say to me when you go into an environment like what what is it you look for? I don't really have a list and then people will often say what's the best environment you've been to and I will always say the Brit.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:18:26]:
And I think some of those clues are like, yeah just like, you know just really memorable for me.

Kirsty Hunter [00:18:33]:
I think one of the I mean one of the things probably that stands out is, you know, the students are given autonomy. They are there to teach one another as much as help to teach the staff as well as the staff back to the students. But they are really supportive of of one another. You know, you've been a showcase of something and an assembly and the students would click rather than the clap, and it was just always so respectful. And they were there to support if somebody had dropped on the floor in in with regards to a dance move. You literally have them hollering from the audience to support rather than to sort of, you know, take the Mickey out of them or anything. So but one of the really important things is, yes, they've achieved getting into the Brit school, but they haven't achieved anything yet. And so for that, they have to work at their craft, and they have to understand essentially that kindness is is so so critical and kindness gets them further.

Kirsty Hunter [00:19:32]:
I remember a girl. She's called Gloria Bailey. She's now a a radio presenter. She didn't accept you well. And when we got there and I there were new students to the school. 200 kids coming through a door and I'm holding the door open. And they're just all excitable walking through. This one girl stops and she says thank you.

Kirsty Hunter [00:19:51]:
So that child, for me, at that point, an outgrown woman, was gonna be my beeline. She was the only person in that moment that understood what it was to have kindness and and just kind of awareness beyond herself at 14 years old, go to the Brit school for the first time. But, of course, then when I wanna go back and find a student I need to represent, then who do I go and find? I'm gonna go and find Gloria because I know that she's gonna be able to show up and represent in the way that we would want everybody to be doing. And, you know, slowly, they all start to get the the gist that, actually, this isn't about me. And look at me. I'm so great. I'm at the Brit school. It isn't that famous school that sometimes it might be projected as because you've got so many famous people coming out of it.

Kirsty Hunter [00:20:33]:
It's just a very great team of people. Those those spaces are our teams. You know, running sports teams, you know what it's like. Everybody's there. It isn't just about that one person who's on the stage or they think about Formula 1 and the constructors. It's like you've got the driver and then you've got everybody else that's behind it. And I think that they get that notion that it isn't just about what I've done when I'm on stage or what my artwork looks like. It's everybody else that's coming around me to make that happen.

Kirsty Hunter [00:21:01]:
And that's, you know, the magic sauce, I guess.

Simon Ursell [00:21:05]:
So there is a level of expectation set on them in terms of their behavior, how they're expected to handle themselves around school with each other, with teachers. Presumably, they're expected to to work on their craft.

Kirsty Hunter [00:21:18]:
Absolutely. But what's really interesting is that the rules per se that you would find in a normal school don't really exist. Sure. So we They

Simon Ursell [00:21:28]:
just they're the expectations of that as part of the culture rather than a list of you must.

Kirsty Hunter [00:21:33]:
Exactly. So we wouldn't have bells because we just assumed that people could tell the time by the time they're 14. Yeah. And strangely, they can. And they'd and they'd get their they'd get to their classes on time. Yeah. And, you know, they didn't they'd have to wear items of clothing that was professional. So, you know, if you've got a dancer walking on from one side of the school to the next, and she's she she's wearing a a leotard with tights and well, that's relevant for her, what she's gonna go into.

Kirsty Hunter [00:22:01]:
It was it was rare, very rare, that you would have anybody with any behavioral issues. They were allowed their phones in school. They were allowed to use them in class to the point where it's relevant for their learning. But rather than a child hiding a phone underneath the desk, which so many young people do, they would be able to utilize them because that's the way way of the modern world. They would also then know when not to look at their phone because they need to engage in, you know, community of activities or that they're listening to the teacher. But they respected that because they were given that freedom, treated like adults. And but sure, they're not treated by like adults if they're they're gonna act like, you know, a child running around the canteen that you might get sometimes and suddenly realize that I suddenly think I'm in the wrong place here. Like, I don't may or maybe you are.

Kirsty Hunter [00:22:52]:
But that didn't really happen because they were just given that freedom and that trust. And I think that trust is, you know, the space where they can be you know, all that psychological safety for them to be who they need to be, what they wanna be. And knowing that they can go into a drum room, use it for 3 hours, and they're not gonna wreck it because it's their equipment as well as the school's equipment that it's for them to use. And it was, you know, it's not it's not, sort of, as idealistic as what I'm making out in on every day. But actually, you know, when you come into those that that building, you can sense that I

Rusty Earnshaw [00:23:29]:
I felt all of that. Yeah. I actually would say unless you'd cleaned up all the graffiti and the litter there wasn't any. Like yeah just that level of trust. I actually got a bit freaked out at one point and I was like why is no one on their phones? And it was like a lunchtime or people were just like communicate communicate with each other without phones. Yep. So I I mean I mean, obviously, that stuff interests me. I'm I will be a massive fan of this.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:23:59]:
I actually wonder to what extent, like, the rules are passed on through, like, I guess, when people come in and, maybe some of the stories that happened in the assemblies and, you know, that's maybe that's some of the rituals that pass on some of the messages from the, elders to the youngest. What do you think about that? Because again, to be fair, they everyone told me the assembly was gonna be amazing. I cried 3 times, and then afterwards, I apologized. I said it wasn't that good. And I was like, oh my god.

Kirsty Hunter [00:24:27]:
What assembly was it that you saw?

Rusty Earnshaw [00:24:29]:
I think it was around the exam time. One of the ones last ones I came to, and people were getting up and just talking about, like, yeah, just their stories of exams and

Kirsty Hunter [00:24:40]:
Okay.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:24:40]:
And and a bit of the bounce back ability stuff to be honest. Like this then led to this and thing it was probably just a message. It might have been about January time when they've been doing their mocks and it was probably a good time to share some messages with the group, maybe around the expectations. And I guess the flip of that is

Simon Ursell [00:25:01]:
I was

Rusty Earnshaw [00:25:01]:
in a school today and saw a really interesting incident with the kid isolated. Again, we tend to go towards, like, isolation booths or, shaming people or

Kirsty Hunter [00:25:13]:
We definitely didn't have those. And, you know, I worked in Peckham for 8 years before Brit. And, you know, there were there's certain things that definitely wouldn't work in other spaces. I know that just I might I might advocate for saying, yeah, let them use their phones and give them the trust. But it's not always as easy as that because there is a reason why people wanna be at the British school. And they also understand it's a really privileged position to be in. And when when you've got 20,000 views online for an open open day when it was during COVID or 5,000 people coming through the door when you when it's not on one day when most schools have got maybe 250 parents walking around the space. So they do know that there is an expectation.

Kirsty Hunter [00:25:59]:
So I think that that does help to leverage that behavior. But, of course, you know, when you're in in the canteen and it's somebody's birthday, you don't just have that small group of people singing happy birthday. The entire canteen will erupt. So most days, you've got somebody's birthday been sung for. And because of that level of creativity and they're rehearsing, they want to be. They're sort of aspiring, you know, somebody's next to me and they're a better dancer than me, then I want them to help me be a better dancer. And and that is then finding the space to just go over that piece of material or to recite something one more time. It's so they're using that time really methodically.

Kirsty Hunter [00:26:38]:
It's rather than you know, they're not playing football at at break times very often because they are working on their craft. And there wasn't much space for football to be fair.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:26:46]:
Yeah. And again, I think I was thinking about, like, what you think the implications are for leadership in those environments? Obviously, you as part of the leadership team, what what would be, like, some of the conversations you're having, some of the things you would go, this is really high value if we do this, we definitely can't do this. Just curious how you get to that stage where it is this environment that, you know, just it's got a snowball effect.

Kirsty Hunter [00:27:10]:
Yeah. I mean, the high value stuff, some of the things that we pro we're sort of we pride ourselves on was the work that we did with the community And letting the students understand that, actually, if I've got a talent, then it's really important that I share that talent with other people so that they can enjoy it and be involved with that. And so those were sort of the the high ticket items where you'd sort of really pull in, whether it's people from Croydon, local schools, people referral units, people at end of life care. You know, we were working with, some of the students and it would be, you know, those moments where you do get emotional. You've got 16, 17 year olds working with people who have got physical, and mental learning needs. And they are getting as much out of the relationship of putting on this 20 minute show than the people that are coming to visit. And that is really something quite special because everybody could do those sorts of things more frequently at any school. But inviting the community to be part of that that that sort of process.

Kirsty Hunter [00:28:22]:
And then the students again getting a bit more of a sense of it's just, you know, the world is so much just bigger than me than me. And that awareness is is quite powerful.

Simon Ursell [00:28:31]:
So, special place, and it's selective, and there's a lot of people that wanna go. How much is that driving these behaviors, as opposed to, if I took the Brit school environment close to anywhere in the country, any kids coming in, do we think that that would then be as successful? Or do you how much because I I can hear in my head other teachers, other schools going, well, it's easy for you because you can pick the kids. It's so much, you know but I'm not I'm not I'm not advocating for that point of view, but I think it's something it's important to acknowledge that.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:29:12]:
But just to clarify, like, no one else is behaving like this. Not that I'm aware of. Or they might be doing bits of it. Yeah. Sure. I'm not saying that so my sense would be that maybe the Brit School staff might be of different so for me this is about the skill of leadership and the skill of Yeah. Of the grown ups in in these environments to help develop hopefully, like, resilient kids who can show up and be creative and and and have discovered what their talent is. I actually think when she said that again, how many schools are thinking? We wanna make sure everyone knows what their talent is.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:29:46]:
I don't think it's funny.

Simon Ursell [00:29:48]:
It it it it's vanishingly small.

Kirsty Hunter [00:29:51]:
No. I mean, there are and there are some there's some amazing spaces that are newer than the Brit Schools. So you've got Elam, LSA. And they're, you know, they're in their sort of infancy where the the alumni are now coming out and doing really well. But again, the culture and the creativity in those environments are providing similar results. So you are getting those people that aren't thinking about issues of behavior because students are able to actually learn all of those other subjects as well that you might do in another school. So you're still doing your maths, your english, your science when you're doing your GCSEs. But you've got more time to really drill down and focus.

Kirsty Hunter [00:30:32]:
And I suppose the difficulty is, maybe in other schools, is that there are many children at 14 year old that that don't know what they wanna do yet. And and it's maybe that lack of direction or the number of people you think that don't do well at school but it's only afterwards that they really start to thrive and succeed. But it is about supporting something that they love.

Simon Ursell [00:30:57]:
It's cool not to know what you wanna do, isn't

Kirsty Hunter [00:31:00]:
Absolutely. That's fine.

Simon Ursell [00:31:00]:
I mean, I don't I'm not sure I know what I wanna do when I grow up.

Kirsty Hunter [00:31:03]:
No. I'm I'm still there.

Simon Ursell [00:31:04]:
Yeah. But

Kirsty Hunter [00:31:05]:
we'll just keep finding our way.

Simon Ursell [00:31:06]:
Yeah. And I and I kinda like that sort of. I think I like not knowing what I'm doing next. I think that's kind of what I'm good at. Yeah. In a way.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:31:14]:
Yeah. I think it's more challenging though when you're at that age and you gotta make some choices at, like, 18 and

Simon Ursell [00:31:19]:
Yeah. So when forcing people down roots that

Rusty Earnshaw [00:31:22]:
Yeah. Yes. We end up being pushed down the roots. Yeah. The other thing I was seeing about when you're speaking there was, like, we just signpost what's important, don't we? So again, whenever I my first memory of walking the Brit is how I'm greeted by the leadership, by them knowing all the kids' names, their relationship with the kids. My first inset at a school as a teacher was based around bringing in the negative points. And I put my hand up and said, are we gonna do any points around like catching people in? And after that point I never put my hand up again because I got like eaten alive It's like lord of the flies type of stuff. How dare you suggest that? I just again, like, just signposted stuff to you, isn't it? Like how how do I think that's important and then again and eventually it it got stopped when a parent said so you're saying you see my son as a series of negative events and points? And so that's a good that's good feedback.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:32:21]:
That's good feedback. Thank you. It is. Again, just seeing possibility in people. I I again, like, I'm not saying they have to have one thing that they wanna do but at least like helping them go, are you gonna go navigate this world? Because the reality is at 18 they they are effectively adults and they're out there and they've got to make choices and, you know, and you're not in a particularly, you know, salubrious area. Some of those kids might not you know, there's all kinds of things going on in their lives that are making it hard for them.

Kirsty Hunter [00:32:50]:
Absolutely. But I mean, maybe that's that's partly it, isn't it? It's the access to daring to dream and thinking about what's possible and that that sort of space and having champions. And you've got multiple champions. We're we're really lucky if we can go back to our childhood and think of 1 teacher, we probably can, that inspired us and motivated us. You know, I became a peatage because of that one person that was so inspiring, and we we all have that. But I think when you go to somewhere like Brits, you've got so many champions, And then the the other students become your champions, and that drives of course, you can do it. It might might might take you long longer than maybe what your timeline is. But

Simon Ursell [00:33:29]:
Oh, so true. Isn't that amazing? I'm I'm just that just really popped into my head then because it's like you you get this amazed you you you hear, people, I don't know, in all walks of life go, I had this amazing teacher, and they loved history. So I loved history, or I love geography, or I love sport, or whatever it might be. And that's where they ended up going because that teacher had inspired them. If you've got 12 of those, then you're gonna find the one that you were amazing at, as well as the one that you've been inspired. Absolutely. It feels like that lack of inspirational teaching is narrowing young people's options.

Kirsty Hunter [00:34:05]:
Well, I think just, you know, such an advocate for people really being able to have a choice about what they want to do when they're choosing their GCSEs. And we changed our whole curriculum to allow people to not have to, you know, do a foreign language if you don't have to. You could if you wanted to. I think it's important if you want to. But that you didn't have to do that because you might do a multitude of different arts. And that, you know, you don't have to do your A levels as a backup for something. Because, actually, you just wanna really, really dedicate yourself to something. You know, might wanna be a dancer, but it's it's not just about dance.

Kirsty Hunter [00:34:41]:
I ended up working in, you know, in one of the best performing arts schools in the country as a deputy head. I was never a dance tour in the touring the world, you know. So you can go into something within that field of the thing that you love. It doesn't have to just be so nuanced to be one thing. And I I just think that there's that limiting in in traditional schools about what they offer and what they're kind of getting people to jump through the hoops for academic measures is just really short sighted because you're not allowing the students then to have access to amazing arts teachers or drama teachers or dance teachers. They're they're having to go through all of this sort of academic rigor really.

Simon Ursell [00:35:21]:
So if we

Rusty Earnshaw [00:35:22]:
if so many stories about that by the way. So many kids have been told 3 months before their a levels you're not taking it because the results aren't gonna be good for us. Fred's mate who started doing his GCSE 2 months in didn't enjoy it, told he had to keep doing it. Yeah. Like

Kirsty Hunter [00:35:38]:
They're just not gonna do well. They're they're absolutely not gonna do do well. It's just you find something that you love. You know, we're talking about your son. It's like you're gonna do something that you absolutely love, and you're gonna nail it at that. And that might change over time. You're gonna be something doing something, you know. I'm now an entrepreneur at 45 years old.

Kirsty Hunter [00:35:55]:
I absolutely love teaching, but I suddenly find out I wanna do something else. And I'm will push on and drive through to continue to do that.

Simon Ursell [00:36:04]:
So you're an entrepreneur. What? Tell tell us about that.

Kirsty Hunter [00:36:07]:
So We've

Simon Ursell [00:36:08]:
got enough of the Pritzker.

Kirsty Hunter [00:36:09]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's inspired where I wanna go if I'm if I'm truly honest. So having so many connections sort of in industry and seeing what's possible and then just realizing there's so many creative freelancers out there. And I've got a brain for business, and I wanna do something fun. But I also wanna go to spaces where I can be part of a community. And again, when my daughter was growing up, you'd go to certain spaces. You'd want her to be able to take part in something and me to be able to do something at the same time.

Kirsty Hunter [00:36:41]:
I think the closest I got to was David Lloyd and it never worked and it still wasn't creative. So came up with the concept of, well, how do we make a school that's available for everybody? Because you come in those doors and you go, oh, this is brilliant. I wanna be part of this. And so there's too many people that have said that during that time. Parents. Students. So just to, create a space where it's a members for b to b to c so that people can come. Amazing freelancers, companies that can come and bring their creative craft and then supply it to their, you know, their their customers and their users.

Kirsty Hunter [00:37:20]:
But also then in a space that means that, you know, I'm not going to a musical theater class in a local church, which is what I currently do on a Tuesday night. And then not be able to go to the pub afterwards or not be to come together and then connect with those people that are doing, an acting class next door or a dance class, a few corridors down. So actually bringing the community together so that my daughter could do Saturday morning school if she wanted to and I could go and do a yoga class. On a Tuesday night, I can go and talk to other entrepreneurs that are starting up their business whether solopreneurs or small teams that can come into a space and actually share their creative practice. That's the aim. So, yeah, I'm currently looking to raise investment at the moment and learning all that is around, Angel and VC Worlds, because I I I really believe that, local local London, that's where it will start, local London neighborhoods and 15 minute cities are something that we are all aspiring to post pandemic and wanting to connect. And people are working from home more. They do have maybe a better life work life balance.

Kirsty Hunter [00:38:30]:
And so to be in those creative spaces where I can be a part of, I don't need somebody to have to refer me and get 2 people to refer me to have a membership somewhere. I just wanna go somewhere in Crystal Palace, say. Go to a class, meet up with other people that are within my community, like minded, and have other people do the same thing. And I think that that's where you can really drive bringing communities together where you walk into that space and get exactly that feeling that you that you walked into that says it's not exclusive to 14 to 19 year olds. Why can't everybody be in a space that, you know, 40 odd years old, I wanna I just I used to play the guitar, you know. Wouldn't it be great if I was part of a band again? Or, you know, or I used to go to dance classes. And I wanna be like that person on Strictly Come Dancing, but there's nothing that's good enough around me or it's just a shabby, you know, hall. So great facilities, great instructors, great entrepreneurs all coming together for a space that would be the creativity clinic.

Kirsty Hunter [00:39:31]:
So that's the aim. And I really do believe it's it's a possibility. There's there's some similar sort of gigs out there at the moment that are bringing sort of more digital podcasting studios and spaces like that. And there's co working space which is essential to sort of be part of it and enable those people to come in but get people through the doors. They don't know what they're missing until they know what it is. But, genuinely, I think that there's so many creative communities out there. And you look at Margate where, you know, people have gone to Margate. You see that place pop up.

Kirsty Hunter [00:40:04]:
It's an amazing space where it's just thriving, where people are wanting and got a thirst for getting involved in creative endeavors and thinking, well, actually, my mental health is better when I connect with people. My mental health is better when I do something creative. So yeah.

Simon Ursell [00:40:20]:
That sounds amazing. I'm I'm in. What about you, Rusty?

Rusty Earnshaw [00:40:24]:
Everything a lot about this. So Campo, who works with us with Optimist is, he took a year out, sold his house, traveled around the world, lived in community living. Yep. Took his 3 kids. I think they were 8, 6, and 4. Got video of them walking to school through the jungle Nice. South America. And he said he said 2 things the other day that hit home to me.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:40:46]:
1 was we've slept walk into leaving our elders in care homes. Yeah. Intergenerational stuff is almost, you know, is is missing. And so in other countries, for example, care homes will be have a nursery attached to them.

Kirsty Hunter [00:41:01]:
Yeah.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:41:01]:
Beneficial for both.

Kirsty Hunter [00:41:02]:
So good.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:41:03]:
And then the other thing he said was, we've just become like and I don't think it's right. It's just this this mindset of I'm gonna build my own castle. So we have our own castles. We put walls around them. We don't let others in and actually, you know, as as interested in like communal living, life expectancy, happiness Mhmm. Mental well-being, all those things and just got me I know, what's his name? Did a good show on that Zac Efron. He did a brilliant show on Netflix about lots of this stuff. So, yeah, I'm all in on the community.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:41:38]:
You know? I would love to be in a band. It would be terrible in all positions. Maybe it could be the maracas guy of dance class. Not sure I'd feel as excited knowing I was going to dance classes when I walked into the Brit school. Very well. It it kinda makes perfect sense to me. It would make perfect sense to my wife who currently, you know, has to travel quite a lot of guests to go to various iterations of what you're talking about.

Kirsty Hunter [00:42:04]:
Yeah. Exactly. Oh, and dropping the kids off. I mean, number of times you sit in the car and you've dropped your kid off to an event or something, you're sat in the car off scrolling in the phone reading the paper, waiting for them to finish their class. Wouldn't it be great if you're just actually gonna do something that you're interested to at the same time? Or even if it was a working space that you could have. And I think it is so important that intergenerational like I said, I'll go to a musical theater choir on a Tuesday night. And, you know, you can be up 80 people in there ranging from 25 up to 85. And it's just beautiful because not only have you got what goes on in that space where you can see that it's really important for these people, particularly those ones that maybe maybe not working anymore or have kind of slowed down a bit in their lives.

Kirsty Hunter [00:42:51]:
But my WhatsApp, which I have to mute, I'm not, to be honest because it goes off crazy. But what's happening then outside of that and their meetups and they're all going to the theater. Does anybody wanna come along? So it just creates something that's so lovely. You know, how often am I gonna sit and talk to somebody who's sixties, seventies unless I'm with my parents? You know, that doesn't tend to happen. And that lovely sort of self sort of mutual respect for others in the room. You know, I'm not the best singer in the world, but there are some incredible people in that space. And so it's nice to one put yourself out of your comfort zone and do something that's just a good laugh. Make you feel good about yourself and make you feel good about life.

Kirsty Hunter [00:43:30]:
But then those relationships that then just happen. And, you know, and that's why then trying to make something like that that then can go to the pub afterwards or just, you know, and then go and say, actually, that's Tuesday night. But bloody hell on a on a Thursday night, I can go and do something else that gets me into a different community of of really connecting and bringing people together. And I think that intergenerational stuff, you know, just going through with my my own grandmother, she's 93, and trying to work out how do we get her into a care home and all of the challenges that that go through with that. And we don't live close together. But there isn't the community. There aren't communities around there. So there's definitely something in I mean, I might not go to community living just yet.

Kirsty Hunter [00:44:14]:
But definitely with, like, trying to build a community and a space where people can go to and it's they're they're, you know, daily daily spot or weekly spot, whatever it might be.

Simon Ursell [00:44:26]:
So, I mean, with so we're kinda talking about a Brit school for everyone.

Kirsty Hunter [00:44:29]:
Yeah? Exact exactly. Exactly.

Simon Ursell [00:44:31]:
And I love that. And in terms of, happiness, and which goes hand in hand with doing well, performance, having those kinds of opportunities to be part of communities makes you happy, helps you to perform well, gives you bounce back ability.

Kirsty Hunter [00:44:50]:
Exactly.

Simon Ursell [00:44:51]:
Yeah? So I'm just trying to I'm kinda thinking of some of the stuff we do at Tyler Grange. We have kids in the office quite a bit. Both my both my kids work constantly in the office. And animals, regularly. We have a lot of Always.

Kirsty Hunter [00:45:04]:
Yeah. I just step my dog in. Yeah.

Simon Ursell [00:45:05]:
We have a heck of a lot of animals. All sorts. What else? Say say you're you're we've got a band. Some of the guys playing.

Kirsty Hunter [00:45:15]:
Oh, nice.

Simon Ursell [00:45:16]:
When they did that song, you they that's amazing. But but it comes out later. So those kind of things. So your

Rusty Earnshaw [00:45:24]:
your Community days?

Simon Ursell [00:45:25]:
Community days. Yeah. Everybody has to volunteer.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:45:28]:
The community day stuff is just so I mean, again, I work with teams that do a community day every week. Tyler Grange is preferably a community day on a Friday. Like, that giving back bit is, like, so important, isn't

Kirsty Hunter [00:45:41]:
it? Yeah.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:45:42]:
It's good for the soul service.

Kirsty Hunter [00:45:43]:
It really is.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:45:44]:
And again, it's kind of, you get that kind of proximity to impact, don't you? Which I think, I remember speaking to some of the kids at the Brit school who'd been around some of the end of life stuff and Yeah. And, like, the impact on them had been, like, amazing.

Simon Ursell [00:45:58]:
Yeah. And I'm and I'm conscious that some people listening to this are not gonna be as into this stuff as we are.

Kirsty Hunter [00:46:04]:
Of course.

Simon Ursell [00:46:05]:
Say, even we don't wanna be talking to ourselves here, do we? We wanna try and reach out and help other people maybe. So the sort of things I think would help that are linking it to performance. Yeah. So if we can say, look, if you do have kids coming into the office, if you do have grandparents coming into your office and hanging out for a bit, and you make that really accessible, and if we help help use your spaces that you're trying to create as an organisation

Kirsty Hunter [00:46:33]:
Yeah.

Simon Ursell [00:46:34]:
As a sports team, as a business, as, other schools, all all these trying to engage with these kind of things Yep. You're going to see better outcomes. Right? I mean, are we are we are we certain about that?

Kirsty Hunter [00:46:48]:
I mean, I'm I'm pretty confident about it. I think there's a lot of, you know, research. So we'll go and tell you about the fact that, you know, people that are happy, people that are connected, people that have got social engagement are performing and outperforming. Those people that are, you know, sitting at your at home on your own behind the computer, you can see the the decline of people's mental health and people going, I want to maybe I don't wanna be back in the office, but I do wanna have some connections somehow. And I want to perform. And, you know, a bit like your 4 day working week. It's like, are we are we just gonna push push push and get people to a certain level of stress? Or are we gonna let them say, you know, you can work in a great environment. We're surrounded by wonderful people that you can stop and just talk to.

Kirsty Hunter [00:47:32]:
That in person connectivity is critical. And if you can then just break for a moment and have break into some song, you know, other than the sciences around the use of sound or the science around, literally

Rusty Earnshaw [00:47:56]:
like, painkillers. So

Kirsty Hunter [00:47:58]:
It's I mean, it's it's mad and those things do do genuinely work. So if you can get somebody to physically move and do something else, you know, dancing whether it's dancing on a chair, if you've not got you know, if you're not so physically able, but just anything that moves the body, we know that that works. And anything that connects with people, we know that that works. So why not put all of those brilliant things in a space and Or

Simon Ursell [00:48:21]:
do something selfless.

Kirsty Hunter [00:48:22]:
And do something selfless.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:48:23]:
And do

Simon Ursell [00:48:23]:
something for someone just out of the pure love of doing something helpful for someone else. Absolutely.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:48:30]:
And they

Simon Ursell [00:48:30]:
get similar, don't you? So, there's so many ways you can access this stuff. Yeah. And if you do do this, if you encourage it and create an environment where people are able to be creative, be kind, give back, do things that aren't just turning up and off, sitting in front of a screen, although that's cool because Yeah. Plenty people love that. Yeah. Could you take what they love?

Rusty Earnshaw [00:48:52]:
People could try. You know what I mean? Just try and experiment. You don't have to gather a whole lot of assassins and have a crash, at your training ground, which again makes lots of happy partners because I know both ways because you you might get a bit more free time in the morning. And then also as a if you're a coach, then you get to see your children. Yeah. Sure. I I have a lot of credit.

Simon Ursell [00:49:15]:
Grange, but I couldn't afford it. Yeah. We just wouldn't

Rusty Earnshaw [00:49:17]:
Lots of the clubs do moms and dads stay, so bring your mom and dad in and they come and train with you and just simple things. Just you know try them. Again lots of the clubs will do stuff around the, you know, the partners, trips for the partners, connecting them up. And again as you know like summer party and people being connected with the business because the other reality is that like you know, if I go to work and it might because you send a hamper at Christmas, my wife thinks, Tyler Granger, amazing. And that's a really good, tactic from you, by

Simon Ursell [00:49:48]:
the way.

Kirsty Hunter [00:49:48]:
To send a hamper. Yeah. Yeah. Hampers out all around.

Simon Ursell [00:49:52]:
Yeah. Well, we do. We I mean, we send hampers on anniversaries and stuff like that. But that's just that's just a thing, isn't it? I mean, I think that that just helps build a sort of bit of a bond, but the you gotta you can't just buy people off with gifts and toys. There's actually gotta be a a genuine sense of community. I I think that's that's purpose with I mean, we this has come up a lot on our on our pop, having a sense of purpose. Say, I think the Brit school, finding what you love.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:50:19]:
Mhmm. What

Simon Ursell [00:50:20]:
did you say you said, daring to dream? That having that something I'm gonna go for, that

Rusty Earnshaw [00:50:26]:
Yeah.

Simon Ursell [00:50:26]:
Real sense of purpose gives you the sense of belonging, and I know where I'm going. Yep. I've got some idea. And that school, obviously, is really helping people. So if you can create that Yep. In a community for everybody

Kirsty Hunter [00:50:40]:
Exactly.

Simon Ursell [00:50:40]:
Then it's just gonna have a huge impact. I mean, I love it. I think it's a wonderful idea.

Kirsty Hunter [00:50:44]:
Thanks. I'm glad you liked it.

Simon Ursell [00:50:45]:
I really hope it works.

Kirsty Hunter [00:50:46]:
But I think but but all businesses, you know, any business that you've got, there's so many coming across all of the different peers that I had whilst doing my MBA. Most people are in finance, health care, you know. And they've got quite rigid and structured ways of working. Of course they have, and I understand that. But, actually, one of the best things is about trying to get people from different industries to talk to other industries and try and find out exactly what it is that they're doing that works. And Yeah.

Simon Ursell [00:51:12]:
Look over the fence.

Kirsty Hunter [00:51:13]:
Exactly. Because sometimes there's just a really different way of looking at a problem and solving it and getting around the table and talking. It's just maybe not something that people don't do enough of. But just trying to think, well, actually, what is going on outside? What is going on out there that we could maybe think about and consider in our in our work and practice? And taking your foot off the gas is, you know, something that is helping with the productivity of people. If you get to, you know, what do I wanna do well with my business when I'm gonna look after the staff? I'm gonna make sure that their mental health is happy. And and the the how do we do that? Well, what do we do to create an environment, whether it's in the building or beyond, that enables people to be their best selves?

Simon Ursell [00:52:00]:
It's individualized. Yeah. Absolutely. They've gotta have a they've gotta have options. Yeah. If you if you say, oh, I'm gonna stick a table tennis table in the office so people can play table tennis, that's gonna make people happy.

Kirsty Hunter [00:52:11]:
Yep. And it's

Simon Ursell [00:52:12]:
not gonna make people happy. No. Only people who love table tennis.

Kirsty Hunter [00:52:15]:
Exactly. And it's not that many yet. It's quite an issue. I don't mind a bit of table tennis for you. That's right. But Yeah. Yeah. But might get bored of it every day.

Kirsty Hunter [00:52:23]:
So

Simon Ursell [00:52:23]:
And and not everybody is like Rusty with this, frankly, amazing ability to go into business, sport, whatever it is, schools, because you do.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:52:35]:
And steal ideas.

Simon Ursell [00:52:36]:
Well, yeah. But you you I mean, but you do. I mean, it's not really stealing ideas, is it? You're just going you're going out and taking time to go around things. And, I mean, I try and do it, but I'm not as good as you are. But, if you can create an environment whereby, that's just happening.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:52:53]:
Yeah. And Yeah. Like, CPD's on your doorstep, isn't it? Yeah. Let's call it CPD, so the businesses buy it. I mean, that's the the problem is that people will go, well, how does it help the bottom line? And I guess Yeah.

Simon Ursell [00:53:05]:
But we're not we're we're sat in a co working space right now, so we're in we're in Runway East. Shout out to them because they're great. And they've got a little tiny bit of this stuff going on. So they put on a few say, this I think this recording's gonna be going out later in the year, but, at the moment, England are in

Kirsty Hunter [00:53:23]:
Of course. Yeah.

Simon Ursell [00:53:23]:
Say, I wonder if England will well, no, by the time this goes out. Well, I wonder what will happen.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:53:28]:
So but England have won the Euros by the time this

Kirsty Hunter [00:53:30]:
goes out. Or not After the game, they're they're not so sure.

Simon Ursell [00:53:34]:
And subdued. Or or knocked out by Germany on penalties. There's who knows? But we're, but we're gonna go and watch that here, so everybody's gonna come together. It's gonna be quite community based. Everyone's kind of interested in it. It's so it's a tiny, tiny little thing. It's not particularly creative, but it's very I mean, some people who love foot, but are gonna really enjoy it, some who don't, let's say. Yeah.

Simon Ursell [00:53:55]:
But having loads of those kinds of things in a co working space like this Yeah. And I am aware that organizations like Runway East really wanna do that Yeah. Because they want us in their space Of

Kirsty Hunter [00:54:08]:
course.

Simon Ursell [00:54:08]:
Doing stuff and really engaged with it. And and I think, actually, Runway East, wanna do that for fairly altruistic reasons, actually, as well as they want a really successful business. So there's definitely a, a place for this, and I think there's a Anybody listening to this, what are you actually doing that's creating a sense of community and purpose for people that you're working alongside in whatever organization that might be? Because if the answer is, I'm not even thinking about

Kirsty Hunter [00:54:38]:
it Yeah.

Simon Ursell [00:54:38]:
Then you are definitely not as good as you could be. Yeah. Is that fair to say?

Kirsty Hunter [00:54:42]:
Yeah. Definitely. And you think, you know, you've got everybody's got their ASG targets they have to hit, and they're kinda go, well, what am I ticking here? I'm gonna do all all of those, but social responsibility about how you are connecting and working with your local community. And, you know, this is a this is a great space. I did I did a feasibility study for my studies, and it was sort of looking at, well, what is it gonna get people in the door in coworker spaces? You know, they are hugely, like, massively growing, opportunity. But with that comes the community that you want to then say, well, how am I gonna keep people here? Because anybody can go and find an office space to go and work in. I want I want somewhere that's near to my home that I know that I can go to that's gonna be as good as some of these other spaces. But that also not forces connectivity.

Kirsty Hunter [00:55:31]:
Because we can go to an event and I can watch the football this evening with yeah. And we can talk to nobody else if we want to. The difference is how do you actually get people to really truly connect. And that's where the creative aspects of, you know, like playing a game of sport. You have to communicate. You have to engage with one another. I'm not gonna get to the end of the goal unless somebody's passed me that ball. So it's the same sort of scenario, but you're gonna have that within an environment where you can just stop for the moment in the day and just have time to do that.

Simon Ursell [00:56:03]:
And it's and it's messy, isn't it?

Kirsty Hunter [00:56:04]:
That's gonna be really messy.

Simon Ursell [00:56:05]:
Really messy. Just you're gonna, you know, create lots of creative opportunities. Yep. And then those creative people bumping into each other, and they're gonna do something you'd never thought of

Kirsty Hunter [00:56:16]:
Exactly. That is sensational. Yep. Exactly that.

Simon Ursell [00:56:18]:
And you can relate that directly to business performance, to sports performance

Kirsty Hunter [00:56:24]:
100%.

Simon Ursell [00:56:24]:
Whatever your organization is. If you can if you create these in fact, I know that, Google creates they create random so they they place where their toilets are so that people have to knock into each other

Rusty Earnshaw [00:56:39]:
Yeah.

Simon Ursell [00:56:40]:
Different departments. So they they they try and create these sort of random Casual collisions. Casual collisions. Yeah. And that that's that's out of, MIT, isn't it? They had this really old office that was falling down that everyone loved. They pulled it down, built a shiny new one, and it absolutely destroyed creativity. Right. Because everyone was put back in their little boxes Yeah.

Simon Ursell [00:56:58]:
To talk to each other. The messy office meant people were knocking holes through walls, running cables, and it was hugely creative. Yeah. So so trying to curate a space that is very creative and then just standing back and seeing what sort of bonkers stuff's gonna happen Yeah. Sounds joyous.

Kirsty Hunter [00:57:16]:
Yeah. I mean, because, you know, look at this this space right now. I mean, how many of the companies that are working out of this space actually connect with one another? Yeah.

Simon Ursell [00:57:24]:
I bumped into somebody the other day in this office who who was I think they were selling yogurt. Yeah. And they had a whole load of it. I was going, nice yogurt.

Kirsty Hunter [00:57:32]:
Can I

Simon Ursell [00:57:32]:
have some yogurt, please? And they said, Sean, what do you guys do? And we were talking about being a b corp, being, oh, we'd like to be a b corp as well. And so we started to change. I don't know where it's gone.

Kirsty Hunter [00:57:42]:
Yeah. Did you get the yogurt?

Rusty Earnshaw [00:57:44]:
No. And he's now avoiding someone, tidying around the corner with yogurts.

Simon Ursell [00:57:48]:
He didn't give me any yogurt, actually, now I'm thinking

Kirsty Hunter [00:57:53]:
about it. But, to be fair, he was going to an event with this yoghurt and So you gave him free B Corp advice, and you've got no yoghurt?

Simon Ursell [00:57:55]:
Well, yeah, but it's all about giving, isn't it? Not what you receive. And I felt good about it. It. So I'm talking myself into this. But but I do love that whole the randomness of it, and I and I think that, the organizations ought to be working out how to make randomness part of their environment in order to maximize performance.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:58:18]:
Yeah. Let's call it spontaneity or something like that, but, yeah, it would make sense.

Simon Ursell [00:58:24]:
It's quite exciting stuff, actually. I'm quite excited about this.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:58:26]:
Yeah. The first will be in Tabbury in 2025, just for you.

Simon Ursell [00:58:31]:
That would be nice.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:58:32]:
You can, take your guitar.

Simon Ursell [00:58:34]:
But if you have a

Kirsty Hunter [00:58:35]:
I think it's a good idea.

Simon Ursell [00:58:36]:
But yeah. I mean, I'm all over it. But if I mean, my guitar would not be great, but, you know, I'd give it a go. But if we if we had businesses engaging with this, as well as community, because you're gonna need some money. Right? Yeah. You're talking to VCs and

Rusty Earnshaw [00:58:50]:
Mhmm.

Simon Ursell [00:58:50]:
Angel investors, impact investors. Yeah. Those kinds of people, they're that that's a world I've been in quite a bit, and it's they're gonna be less interested in the creativity and more interested in the money.

Kirsty Hunter [00:59:03]:
Of course.

Simon Ursell [00:59:05]:
However, I think people are starting to get very aware of these kinds of things. So there are it's just it's it's quite a tough world. But if but if businesses are starting to engage with this stuff, which I think they are, actually, I think they're doing it in a very, sneaky way. There's a lot of sneakiness around this going on. People don't really wanna talk about it much. They're not very overt about it Yep. Because there's a lot of blame. You know, to use a Brit school analogy, they are people are not clapping when they make a mistake.

Simon Ursell [00:59:35]:
Yeah. If they do something like that and cock up, everyone's on stage.

Kirsty Hunter [00:59:37]:
Absolutely. They're

Simon Ursell [00:59:38]:
pointing at them and giving them a lot of abuse. So they're having to be quite sneaky about how they're bringing it in.

Kirsty Hunter [00:59:43]:
Yeah.

Simon Ursell [00:59:44]:
So I think I think there is a open door of engaging the commercial world. I don't know. Sport? I mean, sport love getting involved in these community stuffs because they want

Rusty Earnshaw [00:59:54]:
people to come in. You wouldn't want sport to be part of it, wouldn't you? You would get

Kirsty Hunter [00:59:57]:
Oh, a 100%. I know.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:59:58]:
You know? And if you think about the fans or their, you know, or growing their growing their reach or their impact on the community or yeah. Like, it would seem like it would make sense to me.

Kirsty Hunter [01:00:10]:
Well, you know, not everybody wants to do creative endeavors, but their family members might. And if you wanna go and do something as a family, then I think, you know, boutique, boutique kind of classes are, again, something that's just driving up though in terms of making money, and that's what what they wanna see. Right? So you've got your amazing reformer Pilates studios or yoga or spaces that people can go and do pole dancing alongside these other spaces, then you've you're giving people the option to have these sort of niche experiences. And, yeah, the I mean, finding the cash is is definitely gonna be the the challenge, but I think that at the moment, the the drive and the need for the creative industries and that sort of promise from government even though that obviously might change, the promise to from government to really invest in creative industries. We've got a pipeline that is just drying up, but, yeah, it's so important for this country. So it's bricks and mortar is maybe not as attractive as technology.

Simon Ursell [01:01:06]:
That's I wanna employ creative people. I can't think of a of a business owner that doesn't wanna employ creative people. Yeah. If I wanna employ creative people, I'm gonna have to help create creative people.

Kirsty Hunter [01:01:18]:
Exactly.

Simon Ursell [01:01:19]:
Otherwise, relying on the government today, and let's be honest, they're not guaranteed. They're skinned, so they I think they're gonna struggle. We got the election coming up after this podcast. Oh, so that would have happened. I mean, Labour had won.

Rusty Earnshaw [01:01:32]:
Shock. And Nigel Farage is now prime minister.

Kirsty Hunter [01:01:36]:
Oh. No comment.

Simon Ursell [01:01:38]:
Yep. No comment on that either. But I think it does it is important for everybody to try and engage in this stuff and and make sure that it's not because it's not just about a creative Or did you call it a creative activity or

Kirsty Hunter [01:01:57]:
a Creative leisure.

Simon Ursell [01:01:58]:
Creative leisure. And not everyone wants to do creative. I would say everybody wants to do something Yeah. However we label it. And it might be sitting on their own and read a book. I mean Yeah. Absolutely. That's that's super creative in many ways, depending on what you're reading, but it's but it's a cool thing to do and have that opportunity to be able to do that.

Simon Ursell [01:02:17]:
Yeah. So, yeah, I I I think it's incumbent on everybody to try and get involved in this stuff if you wanna be successful. Yeah. And the businesses that engage with that are the ones that are gonna do well, surely. Yeah. It just makes sense. I mean, I'm thinking about what I'm gonna do next. As ever on these podcasts, I'm gonna annoy the team with my latest ideas.

Rusty Earnshaw [01:02:37]:
If people wanna reach out, if people wanna get in touch with you, where would you recommend?

Kirsty Hunter [01:02:43]:
So I'm on Instagram. I'm slowly growing that. Oh, are you? The Creativity Clinic UK.

Simon Ursell [01:02:49]:
Insta Insta.

Kirsty Hunter [01:02:50]:
Yeah. I'm trying. That's that's that's my kind of target. But my best my best space to find me is Kirsty Hunter on LinkedIn. That's, that's generally where I hang out.

Simon Ursell [01:02:59]:
Yeah. Yeah. LinkedIn. I'm on there too. On Instagram.

Rusty Earnshaw [01:03:01]:
You'll be getting stalked by Simon now to try and build something in Teppri.

Simon Ursell [01:03:05]:
Oh, yes. Yep. Teppri first.

Kirsty Hunter [01:03:07]:
Oh, yeah. Okay. I'm up for anything. So

Simon Ursell [01:03:11]:
Cool. Cool. Well, it's been brilliant to have anyone.

Kirsty Hunter [01:03:14]:
Thanks ever so much for having me.

Simon Ursell [01:03:15]:
Really appreciate it.

Rusty Earnshaw [01:03:16]:
Over the next. Woah. That was good, Yep. Yep. Feeling really awake.

Simon Ursell [01:03:24]:
Yeah. Me too. Why do I you're sat in the sun there, by the way. Is that making you feel a little bit sleepy, Rusty?

Rusty Earnshaw [01:03:29]:
No. It's okay. It's okay.

Simon Ursell [01:03:31]:
Okay. Cool.

Rusty Earnshaw [01:03:32]:
Oh, well, you're excited just because apparently, Kirsty's building a a big place here in Tetbury. Yeah.

Simon Ursell [01:03:38]:
I know. I reckon I may have sung that. So do you think I'm gonna end up with a with a, a Brit school in tech breed just for me?

Rusty Earnshaw [01:03:45]:
Fingers crossed, the locals. The nimbies won't, That's true. They won't, go against us. They're not

Simon Ursell [01:03:51]:
called nimbies anymore. Called bananas.

Rusty Earnshaw [01:03:53]:
Okay. Bananas. Bill. What was your what was your best bits? Tell me your best bits.

Simon Ursell [01:03:58]:
So 2 bits. First one is I'm really loving the phrase daring to dream because I think, you know, we've got dream catchers at Tyler Grange, which we've spoken about before. I just love the idea that we're trying to find the thing that people love to do and that they're really amazing at. And that rather than having 1 teacher, one person, or one mentor that inspires you to do one thing, you've got 12 people who are all really inspirational, and then you pick you end up picking the thing you're ultimately gonna be the very best at. I love the whole idea of daring to dream. I think that's amazing.

Rusty Earnshaw [01:04:32]:
Yeah. Maybe everyone will pick Adele, but I like, I like the concept.

Simon Ursell [01:04:37]:
Well, Adele's quite good. There are other singers available.

Rusty Earnshaw [01:04:39]:
Do you wanna know my my stuff?

Simon Ursell [01:04:40]:
Go on then.

Rusty Earnshaw [01:04:42]:
Probably just the center of the community. I know we chatted a bit around intergenerational and how do we get people together in this place where we you know we chatted a bit offline with Kirsty about where you're almost not not wasting time you're not sitting in your car waiting for the kids you're getting to just connect with other people and maybe, you know, learn the guitar or the maracas or something like that. So

Simon Ursell [01:05:02]:
Yeah. How much time are you just there on your phone? Yeah. Not cool.

Rusty Earnshaw [01:05:07]:
Or if you've got kids, I mean, like, the taxi's waiting outside quite a lot.

Simon Ursell [01:05:11]:
Yeah. Yeah. No. That's so true. So true. So my other one was, it shouldn't be different, as in we've got this environment at the Brit School. It's special, different, amazing. It didn't it doesn't have to be like that.

Simon Ursell [01:05:30]:
And is that the same in sport, in business, in other environments, where you've got special environments that are doing this incredible stuff? It's almost, incumbent on us as leaders to to get out of our bubbles, go and see these things, and try and create these incredible spaces where people become the very best they can be. Not easy for sure, but I think we're gonna try.

Rusty Earnshaw [01:05:56]:
Yeah. And if I had a pound for every sporting team I go into and they say, oh, we're just doing the same as everyone else. I'd have quite a few pounds. My second bit really was just the behaviors of the adults. So I think we talked about it like whenever I've gone to the Brit school, I think the the trust they're willing to give, the kind of connection with the kids, their ability to light fires is you know just like thinking carefully about the leaders in organizations or the coaches in sport or the adults in this context. Like how are you gonna like show up to help other people show up?

Simon Ursell [01:06:34]:
Yeah. For sure. For sure. And isn't it amazing Kirsty came on the pod and said, I'm not sure I'm not sure this is gonna be a great pod. That kind of stuff. Because it's brilliant.

Rusty Earnshaw [01:06:44]:
Yeah. It was good.

Simon Ursell [01:06:45]:
I was really good. I loved it.

Rusty Earnshaw [01:06:46]:
Are you gonna be is it gonna get creepy though? A bit like you just keep speaking about Mustapha to other people on future pods. You're now gonna reference Kirsty Lewis. Yeah. It's

Simon Ursell [01:06:55]:
not gonna be creepy.

Rusty Earnshaw [01:06:56]:
People are gonna feel awkward about it.

Simon Ursell [01:06:58]:
No. No one's gonna feel awkward. Awkward. Okay. I'm just gonna, you know, say that she's great. Nice. Hopefully not too much. So it's creepy.

Rusty Earnshaw [01:07:05]:
Awesome. Cool. Thanks everyone for tuning in.

Simon Ursell [01:07:08]:
Yep. Yeah. Thanks, everybody, and, we'll see you really soon.

Rusty Earnshaw [01:07:11]:
Over and out. Thanks so much for joining us on the Advanced Pack Building podcast with Simon Russell. We've really enjoyed your company. If you wanna reach out to us, Simon, where can they reach you?

Simon Ursell [01:07:22]:
LinkedIn is best place. Simon Ursel, u r, s for sugar, e, double l. Send me a message. Rusty, where can we find you?

Rusty Earnshaw [01:07:29]:
TikTok? No. Not really. LinkedIn, Ross Blanchaw. And then the same on Twitter, but please, ignore all my political thoughts.

Simon Ursell [01:07:37]:
Yeah. Second that.

Rusty Earnshaw [01:07:38]:
Over and out.