The King of Kent Mike Haynes Discusses Broking, Coaching, and Resilience | Episode 18

In today's episode we dive deep into the world of high-pressure careers with our special guest, Mike Haynes. Affectionately known as "the king of Kent", Mike is a former oil market broker who now coaches other brokers on improving their performance and finding resilience within this challenging industry. He shares the ups and downs of his career and his transition out of broking to follow his passion in rugby coaching, and founding his own business as a professional business coach.

Throughout the conversation, we explore the pressure of the brokerage industry, the importance of resilience, and the value of purpose-driven career changes. Mike's insight into handling daily stress, avoiding burnout, and maintaining a balanced life offers valuable lessons for anyone facing challenging environments. We also discuss the necessity of physical fitness, mental resilience, and establishing a clear purpose to fuel long-term success and fulfilment.

Join us as we uncover how Mike leverages his experience to help others thrive in competitive fields and how he finds meaning in his role. Whether you're navigating a high-stress job or seeking motivation to bounce back from setbacks, this episode is packed with wisdom and practical advice. 

In this episode:

04:18 The importance of resilience within high-pressure environments.

15:55 Mikes transition to rugby coaching after his career in brokerage.

17:43 Why different environments suit different individuals' values.

21:20 Brokers are seeking coaching for financial improvement and work-life balance goals.

28:53 Taking a pause between stimulus and action allows choice.

29:46 Self-reflection on business performance is essential if you have improvement goals.

51:27 What do you want to get better at? An important coaching question.

53:49 Understanding that self-care boosts physical and mental resilience.

Connect with Mike here:

Instagram: @Mikehaynes74

Email: Haynes_Mike@icloud.com

Please like, subscribe or follow, so you're notified of any new episodes coming up, and if you're keen to reach Rusty or Simon with any suggestions, feedback or comments, you can contact them via the show's LinkedIn page here: 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-bouncebackability-podcast/

Transcript

Simon Ursell [00:00:00]:
Simon and Rusty here with the bounce back ability podcast. The podcast explores how to deal with obstacles, setbacks, and challenges.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:00:07]:
Hope you enjoy the pod.

Simon Ursell [00:00:08]:
Looking forward to it. Listen on. Okay. Welcome to the Bounce Back Ability podcast, everybody. So who have we got on today, Rusty?

Rusty Earnshaw [00:00:17]:
We got Mike Haines, the king of Kent, the lord mayor of the brokers in the city, the main man, used to be a broker.

Simon Ursell [00:00:26]:
Nice.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:00:27]:
Escaped the rat race, He's now helping brokers get better, coaching them, making them aware of things they weren't aware of. So probably a bit like you, but a bit more svelte.

Simon Ursell [00:00:39]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's not hard. That's not hard, buddy.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:00:45]:
Yeah. No. So, I look forward to it.

Simon Ursell [00:00:47]:
Yeah. Yeah. Let let's get him on.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:00:51]:
Mike Haines. How the devil are you?

Mike Haines [00:00:54]:
I'm very well. Thank you, mate. How about you?

Rusty Earnshaw [00:00:56]:
Thank you. I'm feeling sharp. 26 hours into a 72 hour fast and starving.

Simon Ursell [00:01:05]:
Yeah. So you well, you got another whole day?

Rusty Earnshaw [00:01:07]:
Got another day and a half. Gonna eat at, 12 o'clock in Amsterdam on Thursday. For reference, it's now 2 o'clock on Tuesday in Bristol.

Mike Haines [00:01:17]:
That's a long way to go for 2.

Simon Ursell [00:01:19]:
Yeah. Why don't you just why don't you just eat locally, mate? You're doing it wrong.

Mike Haines [00:01:24]:
I know.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:01:24]:
Well, I am doing it wrong because I have to fly without food, and the minute I get on a plane, I wanna have a cheese toastie, so so don't. Anyway, back to the pod. Mike, Haynes, rugby coach, ex trader, coach of traders.

Mike Haines [00:01:41]:
Broker, not trader. They're, they they are different things.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:01:44]:
Are they?

Mike Haines [00:01:45]:
So broke A trader a trader is somebody who will buy and sell and make money by market is going up, market is going down, and a broker is a facilitator, if you like. Glorified estate agent, if you will. Right. You know, if if, for example, you wanted to come in and, buy some it was the oil market that I was in. If you wanted to go in and buy some oil, you would go to a broker and, they would hopefully have the best prices, and then you would execute your business through through me, for example, and then, see how that shaped out.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:02:18]:
Yeah. And, I was just saying my wife was watching a program about brokers on, Netflix or something, and it was, it wasn't even a documentary, and I was too stressed to watch it after 10 minutes.

Mike Haines [00:02:30]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It can be stressful. It can be It's

Simon Ursell [00:02:32]:
just drama, Rusty. It's fine. They're they're actors. It's not real.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:02:38]:
Tell like, tell me more tell me about the job then. What was like the the highs and the lows of the job?

Mike Haines [00:02:45]:
The highs are probably like most jobs, when you do well. But the the thing about it is is that you get very instant gratification by doing a deal. And let's say you might do anywhere between it can really vary. Some days you do one deal, and that's not the best day you're ever gonna have. Someday you might do 80 or 90. So when you do 80 or 90, you walk out of that office and you feel like you're absolutely king of the world. When you do, well, you can do 0 deals, and you've basically had your backside kit, it feels like probably one of the worst jobs in the world. Go.

Simon Ursell [00:03:24]:
Well, my bias would be I mean, I know quite a lot of people knocking around the city. It sound it sounds a very stressful job. I mean, it's and it's very black and white, isn't it? Like, I think like you're describing now, you're either doing well and probably when you've done well, yeah, you walk out feeling great, but you gotta do it again the next day, haven't you? So it's it's it also I mean, I wonder if it's quite relentless too.

Mike Haines [00:03:47]:
A 100%. Again, you get, pros and cons to that because when you come out and you're on Cloud 9, let's use sporting analogies, you know, you've just won 5 nil in a football term. And next day, you look at your sheet of paper and you're back to nil nil. You go, okay. Cool. Alright. Let's see if we can do it again. The flip side of that is when you've just lost 5 nil, you can get back in the next day and go, oh, I'll get another get.

Mike Haines [00:04:18]:
And that can feel quite good, but when you're on the receiving end of it, you're probably not gonna be at that that that particular firm for very long, so there is pressure there. But then, also, when you're doing quite well, you probably create your own pressure because you want to continue on that uptrend. You wanna continue making money. You want to continue to be successful. But, no, the pressure is the pressure is there most of the time. And, again, it's, you know, to coin to coin the phrase of of the pod, it is bounce back ability as to how well you can when you when you probably lost the day before, it's how well can you get back into it. How well can you bounce back? You know, from a rugby perspective, from a broking perspective, you know, we've always talked about resilience being a a really good quality. My argument well, my argument my agreement with that is if you're not resilient and you quit, well, you're never gonna win.

Mike Haines [00:05:14]:
And I'm assuming that they're in competitive environments such as sports, such as broking, such as the city. Well, you're trying to be successful. You're trying to you're trying to win, I guess.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:05:26]:
Is there lots of, crossover? So I imagine lots of the I got friends who work in the city who are okay rugby. But I guess that kind of getting those dopamine hits and chasing stuff and, you know, yesterday didn't go well. I'm gonna go after the day. Probably over celebrating when things go well would be something that I would have noticed as well. Like, just sounds

Mike Haines [00:05:52]:
like a bit of a roller coaster, which again, as honest pro sport can often be because, again, you've you've just talked about measuring outcome, which is, like, you don't always control that, do you? No. No. I mean, you control the controllables as always, you know. And again, in competitive environments, again, whether that's sport, whether that's the city, you know, you've just gotta control what you can. And the bit that I always struggle with a little bit is, you know, we always talk about, well, you know, how are you gonna get better as a sportsman, as a broker, as a, you know, whatever you might be. You know, I'm gonna try harder. Well, I'm assuming your effort levels are a 100%. Otherwise, you might have a bit of an issue that it's straightforward.

Mike Haines [00:06:42]:
So, you know, how are you how are you gonna be more skillful? And then I think that's where a lot of probably a lot of brokers, I think, pulled out. Because what you find is that the the ones that become more skillful are the ones, funnily enough, that have been doing it long. So they're the ones that get more reps in because they can practice more. The the junior brokers, they initially they they struggle because they don't really know how to practice. They don't have anybody helping them to practice, telling them what to practice, what skills do they need. They're trying to work it out generally, and I think this is probably the same in a lot city environment. And it's, you know, in sport, we as to rugby, we train Tuesday Thursday to get better so that we can execute those skills or the game plan or whatever it might be so that we can execute that on a Saturday. And yet nobody really seems to do that in, you know, in the well, certainly not in the, in the world of oil broking.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:07:41]:
What, what skills what skills do they need?

Mike Haines [00:07:44]:
Varies. I with the with the people that I help, I narrow it down or I compartmentalize it to on desk and off desk, you know. So you've got to think about when you're on the desk, it's very much technical skills. You know, you've you've gotta know how how these markets work. You've gotta know how you how you're gonna execute these these trades, how you're gonna make these trades, these deals that you will receive revenue from. You've also got to think about how you're gonna communicate to your customers and to your, and to your colleagues. There's a probably like most businesses, you know, there's a there's a language that initially when I walked into my broken office when I was 20 and, I didn't have a clue what they were talking about. They were talking about spreads.

Mike Haines [00:08:31]:
They were talking about bid and offer and high lows and didn't have a clue. But eventually, like any language, you, you know, you absorb it. You you go into that world and slowly but surely you pick it up. And, yeah. So communication is is big. Again, it's like like most it's a team sport, basically. And like team sports, if if the communication works, then the team works better. And whether that's on the rugby pitch, football pitch, cricket pitch, broking desk, it's the same.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:09:03]:
And what have you, she got some questions, Sam. But what what have you noticed like going in as a broke coach? I remember speaking to you, and you said you were going into the office and kind of just observing and being the per 3rd, you know, speaking in the 3rd person. Well, what stuff have you noticed?

Mike Haines [00:09:22]:
How pressure affects people. You know, the the the job itself. Here you go, Simon. It's quite mechanical. You know, there are there are systems that you can use. Pressure is something that's gonna test test that system. You know, it's getting a buyer together, getting a buyer and seller together, agreeing the price, agreeing the volume, moving on, that should be relatively easy. But then all of a sudden, the the pressure start coming in.

Mike Haines [00:09:53]:
So, for example, again, competition, it will be time. You know, you've got to move fast sometimes. Markets are moving fast. The prices are moving quickly. So that puts pressure on your skill set. You might be tired. You know, you you're working 12 to 14 hour days, but then you had to take you know, you've gone out and met customer for dinner. That finished at midnight, and the alarm goes off at 5:30.

Mike Haines [00:10:20]:
But it's Tuesday. You're going, oh. This hurts. It's

Rusty Earnshaw [00:10:25]:
your day's left in the way. That's fraud.

Mike Haines [00:10:28]:
Yeah. But this hurts already. And it's just, you know, you gotta you gotta keep yourself in some kind of decent condition because it's it's a sedentary job. You know, you're sitting at your desk. But as I say, 12:14 now. But it is, you know, it's quite again, as I say, it's quite fast paced. So, yeah, watching watching these guys having the basics, but struggling because of the the pressures that are coming into them is, is generally what I see.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:10:59]:
Interestingly, we've spoken to people in sport, and not so many of them have mentioned the kind of keeping fit elements of it. So, obviously and Simon is shaking his head, but but, yeah, you're I obviously know you're in good, Nick, and I know you love a bit of CrossFit. And again, I I I I've been on a couple of times with people you worked with, and they didn't look as in as good, Nick, as you. And they're still working and you're not. And I'm not saying there's a direct correlation. But, like, that ability, you know, to if you haven't had sleep, if you haven't had water, if you haven't exercised, if you've got stuff going on in your family life, you know, kids, all of that. It's, I imagine, like, you can make some pretty or split second decisions if you're not careful.

Mike Haines [00:11:47]:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, it's again, using sport, it's hard to make good decisions when you're tired. And that's exactly it's exactly the same on a broken desk. It's exactly the same at home when you've got a you know, when you've got small children, you know, and they're crying at 3 AM and yeah. You might you might get that decision wrong.

Simon Ursell [00:12:09]:
Well, that's I mean, that's fascinate that's interesting, isn't it? And, you know, you it's it's hard to make good decisions when you're tired. 49 days, 5 days a week, pretty relentless. It doesn't sound like you're gonna be anything other than tired. So are you gonna be making good decisions?

Mike Haines [00:12:28]:
Yeah. Well, I think, the keeping fit element, I think, is is quite important from that process. Because, again, the the days that I'm describing and let's say, you know, if you've got a got a family as well, you know, again, let me let me give you a little bit of color to the day. So, you know, you you're up at 5:30, you're at your desk at 7. Let's say you finish it at 7, you're quite tired, You come home, see the kids, they go to bed, have dinner with your wife. Lovely. Try and get a little bit of downtime. Next thing you know, it's up past 10 and you've gotta go back.

Mike Haines [00:13:03]:
Yeah. You've gotta go to bed because you gotta be up in 7 minutes. So the only real time you get to yourself, actually, for yourself, for me anyway, was when I was in the gym. And that was that was valuable time for probably, you know, for phys obviously, for physical, but for probably some mental resets as well, which is quite useful.

Simon Ursell [00:13:26]:
Oh, maybe we maybe if we go back, I'm fascinated. So I've got a few mates back from my school days. Cut the car. Some of them went in to do various city jobs. 1 was a copper trader, made quite a bit of money, left it, went and bought a small holding down in Cornwall, spends his life fishing at the Dom. Hey, Dom. Sounds great. Spends his time fishing.

Simon Ursell [00:13:49]:
Well done, Dom. Looking after, holiday lets, really slow pace of life. Not massively wealthy, but he does well. And then I've got a couple of other mates who I won't shout out to who say made similar roles, still in the city now earning a lot of money, but I'd rather be Dom. So where where, in terms of because it sounds to me like you've you kind of I'm not gonna say got out, but you you've done this job. Sounds like quite a young man's game as well from those sort of length of days and things, certainly in terms of looking after yourself to do that. I couldn't do it now. Blimey.

Simon Ursell [00:14:29]:
So let's go back a bit. You know, you you had this job, you worked through you had what what happened? What what sort of things do you think actually I wanna go and do something different? Or what what what

Mike Haines [00:14:41]:
was your thought process? I think the main thing is is your friend Don has done is it's all very well not working. But what are you gonna do?

Simon Ursell [00:14:53]:
Yeah. He he is a very busy guy, but he's done lovely things.

Mike Haines [00:14:58]:
There's only so long you can sit on a sofa in your pants watching cash in the attic. There's there's gonna be a few questions after a while.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:15:07]:
You you painted a brilliant picture there for me, Mark. I appreciate it. Yeah. That's

Mike Haines [00:15:13]:
it's not really it's not really how, it's not really how the world works. So no. For me, it was rugby coaching. I started doing that 12 years ago as a lot of rugby coaches do, you know, well, volunteer rugby coaches anyway, standing on the sideline bringing my 6 year old son to rugby. I had a black eye because I played the day before. Next thing you know, you're you're involved in it and, it was really, obviously, very reward rewarding. It was a good a bit of escape, you know, you're thinking about other things, you're helping other people. Good community.

Mike Haines [00:15:55]:
You know, you're meeting different people from different different walks of life, which is always quite quite interesting, quite fun. That carries on and after a while, you actually look at it and you think, I really enjoy this. I for me, for voking, I always I always had a plan. I always well, I didn't always have a plan, but as I was coming into the last few years of of my career, I had a number that I thought would, hopefully, I could get to, and then I could, stop doing that and actually do what I wanted to do. And what I wanted to do was to go and be a rugby coach. So managed to I was doing a little bit with, Saracens and through that through a contact there, he got me into a local state school. And so I was helping there, year sevens, year eights, you know, all the little munchkins. So that was really good fun.

Mike Haines [00:16:50]:
Quite enjoyed that. And, yeah, just just again, just do it because you do it because you enjoy it and do it because you want to. But as I say, you you know, your Tom clearly had a plan and clearly had something that he wanted to do. Whereas your other friends, again, cash in the attic or golf course or something like that, There's more to life than that for me anyway. Not for everyone else, but for me.

Simon Ursell [00:17:15]:
Yeah. Sure.

Mike Haines [00:17:15]:
I mean, it

Simon Ursell [00:17:16]:
reminds me of Phoebe Shetler, Rusty. She's talking about environment, wasn't she? And her And how some environment she'd been in so do you know Phoebe might? Phoebe Shout out to the NFL coach. She's been on the pod. No. I don't think so. Yeah. Amazing lady. But she was talking about her, being in a few places that she grew and learned from, but realized that they were very bad environment for her.

Simon Ursell [00:17:43]:
Very bad environment for her, but not necessarily for others. And I think it's it sounds like, you know, you've got to find places where you're going to become resilient, have the ability to bounce back are gonna be places where you are, where it matches your values, your way of wanting to work, and your purpose, and all those kind of good things. So then, you know, Dom's case that didn't match what he wanted, but what he's doing now does say, is that sort of part of what you're talking about there in terms of your moving on from breaking, going into coaching? Was it really about was it value driven?

Mike Haines [00:18:25]:
Yes. I guess it was, actually. The the main the main core ingredient for both of those roles that I have had and currently have is that it's people people oriented. And it seems I'm a piece I'm a people person. But I think the main thing as you alluded to before is that it's it's you know, broking is a it's it's full on. It's it's full time. It's all consuming. And it's like most, high level competitive environments.

Mike Haines [00:18:57]:
You have to be quite selfish, I guess, in a way, in order to in order to succeed. That doesn't really sit that well with me. I can do it. I'd rather not, but I can do it. And then after a while, again, I I was in that environment for 24 years. I loved it. It was really, really good fun. Again, with people and a lot of really, really good people in that environment.

Mike Haines [00:19:23]:
Don't get me wrong. It's not all, like, you know, as you saw on that TV, Rusty, with, you know, all all stressful and everybody shouting and swearing at each other. I mean, yes, that does happen. But, generally, the people are very good in the, in the in the industry. But, no, it's I think, ultimately, really, all I did is I bought myself time, and now I can choose what to do with my time. I like to be around people, and I like to help.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:19:49]:
So and well done, Simon. You said environment without mentioning Mustafa. So that's it.

Simon Ursell [00:19:53]:
I know. And you brought it up now. That's that's that's your fault, not mine.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:19:57]:
I guess I was thinking and you mentioned community, Mike. Like, when you start talking about some of the sports stuff you're doing. I'm I'm interested in 2 aspects of of the previous job and, like, again, you know, there's there's loads, isn't it? My my mates are they're not in good nick. They are, like, don't look after themselves. They barely sleep. They've ended up on drugs. They've ended up huge amounts of alcohol. Like, I think it's a really a business that isn't that conducive to a general well-being, if I'm honest.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:20:29]:
But then the the 2 things I was thinking about were like community. So you mentioned community. So I like this kind of resilience by community idea that come in an environment where people will catch me if I fall. I just wanted to what extent it felt like that. And then the second thing is this transition often seems really hard for people to make. Now that might be financial, that might be, I'm addicted to the dopamine, that might be because I can't get into another world. I'm just I'm just curious. So what I see is lots of people kind of trapped in this world that is looks a little bit like it's sabotaging their lives.

Mike Haines [00:21:01]:
Yeah. I I would I would say, yeah, the the 2 things again, just going back to it. Yes. Financial. Now let let's face it. We'd all you know, unless you're very, very lucky, I think most of us would like to do something other than working for a living. Yeah. There's there's better things out there, but it's actually understanding what is out there.

Mike Haines [00:21:20]:
But yeah. So it's financial initially With the with the coaching of the brokers that I do at the moment and and other businesses as well, I mean, we you know, my my first question is, you know, what what do we what are we trying to achieve? Like, where where are we going with this? You know, the these guys, they ask they ask for my help, and I'm happy to help, of course. But why? What what do you want help with? I want help with, you know, being a better broker. Yeah. Okay. Fine. So we do that, but then what is it why are we doing it? Because I'm assuming that's because you want to make more money. Right? Yeah.

Mike Haines [00:21:53]:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Fine. Why? What do you wanna do with that, man? I want a new kitchen. You're like, okay. Cool. We've you've now you've now got a new kitchen.

Mike Haines [00:22:03]:
Now, well, where are we going? Where are we gonna be in like, if we're gonna do this for 10 years, where are we trying what are we trying to do? Are we trying to buy a house? Are we trying to retire? Are we trying to put the kids through school? You know, what what are we trying to do? Oh, yeah. I'd like to retire. Okay. Fine. What are you gonna do there? I don't know. Nobody you know, it everybody seems very mid you know, short to midterm focus, to be fair.

Simon Ursell [00:22:28]:
Yeah. That sense of purpose is rare, isn't it? You you you you and it and I think one of the things Rusty and I have learned talking to people on this podcast is probably the most resilience, the most bounce back ability you can get is if you've got a really clear, sense of where you're headed. It's so it makes everything so much easier, and it makes you so much more resilient. That's so true. The why. Yeah. So Suzanne Brown reckons this £89,000, very specific. £89,000 a year after tax, after which money doesn't actually impact on you that much.

Mike Haines [00:23:07]:
Okay. Yeah. Fair enough. Depends on lifestyle, obviously, I get.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:23:10]:
Yeah. £89,000 after tax.

Simon Ursell [00:23:13]:
Yeah. It's quite a big number.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:23:15]:
It's a pretty big number.

Simon Ursell [00:23:17]:
Well, it is. But if you think about, everyone chasing more and more and more and more and more, if the billionaires gave up their money, everyone could have 89,000 could a year after 10.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:23:28]:
Yeah. Well, there you go. But then it's not true, is it? Because they would be they would all be altruistic in handing out their money to help everyone else, wouldn't they?

Simon Ursell [00:23:36]:
Yeah. Well, maybe yeah. Anyway, let's not get into that election coming up. They sort all that stuff out, and it definitely comes in.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:23:43]:
Even that in itself, Mike, you, like, having them established, like, what their purpose is and where they wanna get to is probably a reasonable starting point that it sounds like some of them haven't even thought about again.

Simon Ursell [00:23:55]:
And it's never money, is it, mate? Money is not the money is not the purpose. No matter everyone always says, oh, I wanna earn more money. And like you, I help a few people in these sorts of things. And it's never money. Once you really dig in.

Mike Haines [00:24:10]:
Yeah. Absolutely. But the bit I I'm trying to help with, and I think, hopefully, this ties in with resilience and bounce back ability, is that, you know, we talk about, you know, what's your what's your why? And once we should once we've established that, you know, call that an outcome goal if if you want to. And then we break it down into process goals as well. So that at the end of the day, maybe, you know, maybe they haven't quite got to where they want to get to. But if every day you're hitting your process goals, then you know that you're basically on the right path. So that you, you know, you you might leave the office and go, I didn't get that particular trade that I wanted to do. Again, okay.

Mike Haines [00:24:52]:
Fine. But it's, you know, we're we're on the right pathway because you're you've hit a lot of your process goals today.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:25:00]:
And you feel like you're having them become more skillful as well? Like, obviously, that ability to kind of regulate under pressure and the ability to communicate and listen, and they're all skills that are, you know, that they might not be developing intentionally.

Mike Haines [00:25:17]:
A 100%. One particular one particular guy that I that I helped, he you know, when pressure gets too much for him, he does, you know, what what most animals do. I mean, it's fight, flight, or freeze. And he fights. So you go right. Okay. Well and, unfortunately, that never normally yields the results that he's looking for, funnily enough. And so you go right.

Mike Haines [00:25:47]:
Well, when, you know, when that pressure comes on, is there, is there any cue that you actually have? He says, yeah. I get this, hopefully, it's not gonna lead on to a heart issue or something like that. He said, but I just get this feels like kind of ball of fire in my chest. It's like, right. Okay. And I said, well, when that's when you get that, yeah, what would you like to do? Would you like to go for a walk? Would you like to go for a coffee? Or, you know, when you when you feel that, what's the best option for you? Because I'm pretty sure it's not going in and shouting and, you know, having a having a go at your team and telling them they're rubbish and all that. They're just he said, no. No.

Mike Haines [00:26:24]:
I think, I think just going and splashing some water on my face in the bathroom is is gonna be helpful to me to calm for me to calm down. So whenever you feel that that that fire in your chest, that's your cue. Off you go. And then he goes and gives himself 30 seconds and comes back out. And funnily enough, he can make better decisions.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:26:43]:
And he's got a really clean face, I would imagine.

Simon Ursell [00:26:47]:
And wet hair.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:26:51]:
Yeah. It's it's interesting, isn't it? Again, like and again, I only know about this because of mates and because me and you did a couple of Zooms in lockdown. And, just instinct, just, like, trying to paint a picture of what this world looks like of, you know, just this roller coaster up and downs. But are you able to, like, separate stimulus and response, you know, when you're when you're at your lowest point or you're in a bit where you know that you're gonna be unhelpful is a is a helpful skill for them to understand and amazingly probably something they've never considered before. Good job of your coach, rugby mate. I'll tell you. Good job of your help to go back and help them.

Mike Haines [00:27:31]:
Yeah. And were you Very awesome.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:27:33]:
Were you aware of this when you were doing it yourself?

Mike Haines [00:27:36]:
Funnily enough, the better I got at rugby coaching, the more aware I became.

Simon Ursell [00:27:40]:
Yeah. Suddenly suddenly realized what was helpful and what wasn't helpful. And, easing your

Mike Haines [00:27:45]:
Language, how I the language I use, the presentation of, you know, whether I'm tell, sell, ask, delegate, that kind of thing. Yeah. It made me it made me a lot more aware of me how to, yeah, communicate with my team and probably also to communicate with my customers.

Simon Ursell [00:28:04]:
It reminds me of rights, Rusty. You know, the story where he's wandering around the bar this this is a 2 star general. He's wandering around the barracks with an absolutely foul mood, screaming and chatting, kicking chairs, and generally being really annoyed with people. And he he but he needed somebody else and he he's pretty self aware. He needed somebody else to come in and say, did you really intend to make everyone's days awful, Royce? And he, so I think it's a it's a common thing, isn't it? Even amongst those who are pretty aware. My mindfulness coach Mia, I'm gonna shout I'm shouting out to a lot of people today. I mean, obviously the thing I'm doing today, Mia, she's cool lady, but she's she use she, quotes Viktor Frankl. So are you familiar with Viktor Frankl? He's a mindfulness guru.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:28:51]:
Answer, meaning?

Mike Haines [00:28:53]:
Not me.

Simon Ursell [00:28:53]:
But, yeah, he's got this quote which is, in the space between stimulus and action, there is a pause and in that pause lies our between stimulus and action, there is a pause and in that pause lies our freedom. And I think that's what you're giving this guy this guy the ability to do with the water on his face. He's basically stimulated to be angry, get that fire in his chest. So he's he's going off and putting water on his face so he can pause, and then he can choose how he wants to behave. So he can go back in and kick off if he wants, if he thinks that's gonna be the right thing to do. And I don't know. Maybe it would be, probably not, but it might. And then or he can go and go, actually, now I'm not gonna lose it.

Simon Ursell [00:29:29]:
Mhmm. So yeah. But I think that's a really powerful thing to do that. I like the I like the fact as well you led him to that conclusion for himself as well and didn't try and offer him some strategies. He sort of thought and came up with his own way of doing it. That sounds really cool. I love it.

Mike Haines [00:29:46]:
Oh, it's all very it's very subjective. And I think if any you know, if anything, you know, again, for example, if people ask for help with whatever business they're in. And my favorite question is, well, what do you want to get better at? And you can sort of initially, they look at me like I've got 2 heads. And then they sort of start looking up at the ceiling and actually thinking, naturally reflecting on their own performance and actually thinking about what their day looks like and what what do they get stuck with or what makes them feel uncomfortable, what do they purposefully avoid. I know I did. You know, there are a few things in in my day today that I purposely avoided those. Didn't didn't know how to do them and never took myself off from practice.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:30:35]:
What did you avoid?

Mike Haines [00:30:38]:
There was a there was a particular way of trading a product tonight. It was 2 products and I didn't know how to do it. And all I did was just ask someone else to do it for me.

Simon Ursell [00:30:49]:
Skills.

Mike Haines [00:30:49]:
Which was terrible.

Simon Ursell [00:30:50]:
Effective delegation.

Mike Haines [00:30:52]:
Fair delegation. Yeah. But, you know, I should have I should have known how to do it, but I just kept avoiding it. And that's that's not very cool, really.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:31:02]:
Yeah. Eventually, the the purposely avoiding stuff like difficult conversations becomes, like, way harder, doesn't it, if you keep avoiding it?

Mike Haines [00:31:12]:
Yeah. You know, imagination is a powerful thing. So, you know, well, I'm not gonna do that because this might happen. Just try. What's your, you know, what's your dance as a friend of mine who's very, very keen on the side.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:31:25]:
The, I'm reminded of I was just thinking that, like, when I saw you at old Altamium's car park and you you were just saying like the best the best course I ever did was like my RFE level 2 or something like that. And just like it it helped you the most ever at trading, which is like fascinating, isn't it? Because there's these people that are responsible for that 1,000,000 of pounds. Yeah. And yet, they are few level 2 might have been the best course they could have done.

Mike Haines [00:31:55]:
The biggest issue I find with a lot of this, again, going back to my very hard to practice, very hard to get reps in repetitions, is you don't have time to look outside of your own environment, and you become quite institutionalized. Again, let me, you know, let's go back to that description of the day up at half 5, off desk at 7, leave at 7. Maybe you're going out to dinner with a customer or maybe you're seeing friends, which is always great. And then let's say you're home at midnight. Again, you're up at half 5. Repeat. You don't have time to look outside your own environment. And that's that's quite difficult, I think.

Mike Haines [00:32:36]:
It would be it was only when I did start to look, you know, the rugby coaching took me out of the oil breaking environment that I learned more. But, again, time time is valuable.

Simon Ursell [00:32:48]:
Yeah. That's massive. I mean, but again, is that's, that's lovely you brought that up because that's a theme that's gone through the pod quite a bit. Isn't it Rusty? Looking over the fence. Whatever you're doing, sport, business, working in public sector, whatever it might be, people do tend to get quite traditional and, do what they do in the way they do it. Don't they? And don't try different things. It's so, so, so true and so great for resilience building as well to be able to to to do that, to to look outside your environment, go and try different things. I think it's massive.

Simon Ursell [00:33:25]:
I think,

Rusty Earnshaw [00:33:25]:
yeah, as you as you

Mike Haines [00:33:26]:
say in environments, it always makes me laugh. So let's let's use me, for example. Let's say, you know, at the time, mid forties, you know, still and then somebody comes in and says, right. Okay. Can you can you teach this, junior how to do this, please? Yeah, sure. So I teach them the way I was taught. But the problem with it was is that I was taught by somebody who is in his mid forties as well. So on that basis, you're talking about I'm teaching somebody the same techniques that I that somebody learned in about the eighties.

Mike Haines [00:34:02]:
But you're telling me that things aren't moving on in the last 40 plus years. I mean, I fully understand in in most businesses, the basics are the basics, and that's fine.

Simon Ursell [00:34:13]:
Yeah. They're they're not, are they? I mean and and plus the basics that are the basics are probably stuff people can learn really fast anyway. The stuff that's that probably they need you for is is more, more emotional, isn't it? And not mechanical. Mechanical stuff, you can teach relatively easily, can't you, to most people. But the sort of the ability to learn, to grow, and keep growing, look after yourself, and all these kinds of things, you don't get that without having some outside of the environment influence on you. It is fascinating. So do you think because, I mean, everything you're saying to me is, is, in terms of the breaking world, it sounds like an environment that's really quite poor and low and very low performance. And, yes, while these these guys are working really hard and smashing and doing some incredible stuff, think how much better it would be if they were less and spent more time working on themselves and each other, as well as I mean, a bit like, you know, you used the the sport analogy training, you know, Tuesday, Thursday for performance on a Saturday.

Simon Ursell [00:35:28]:
Do you think there's some something to be said for saying, actually, this is really silly? I mean, nobody's performing at their peak for that period of time. They're just not it's not happening.

Mike Haines [00:35:40]:
Yeah. I I I agree with that. And to be honest, that was one of my one of my main reasons for setting up this broken consultancy company if you like. I'm just trying to help people in the it's a very high output job. You know, you you're always on the go. You're always pushing. If you're not you're not pushing, if you're not chasing, well, probably not doing it right. It's it's it's demanding.

Mike Haines [00:36:06]:
It is demanding. And, again, yes, it's, you know, let's try and work a bit smarter, not hard. But, again, if you don't have the time to actually take yourself away, reflect, think about what you need to be better at, you don't know what you don't know.

Simon Ursell [00:36:21]:
Yeah. This blows my mind. That's weird. It does.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:36:24]:
Yeah. But it's the same everywhere. Some of this stuff's weird.

Mike Haines [00:36:26]:
It is.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:36:27]:
Now so if we were talking about giving and receiving feedback, communication skills, you know, if we were to decide what different levels of communication look like on the for the brokers, like, just creating clarity on this is a skill, this is how we're going to get better at it. Like, that doesn't exist in sports either. There's there's no places where they're being super super doing it by chance in lots of places, but it's not it's not deliberate.

Simon Ursell [00:36:53]:
And everybody thinks everybody else is really, really good at it as well. So you talk to the military, they think business is incredible.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:36:59]:
There'll be some places, but there's not many. If you if you think back, I mean, you would have a huge part of your job, Mike, would have been asking good questions, would have been giving and receiving feedback, would have been listening skills, and you wouldn't have had any training or any of that.

Mike Haines [00:37:13]:
100%. Which

Simon Ursell [00:37:15]:
is absolutely completely and utterly nuts, isn't it? I mean, it's just

Rusty Earnshaw [00:37:20]:
It's the same in it's the same in sports. So let's not let's put sport on a a slightly higher pedestal perhaps, but still we're we're still miles away in sport. We're scratching the surface and all this stuff.

Simon Ursell [00:37:32]:
I think you put I mean, some bits of I mean, from what I see, Rusty, stuff you're doing, some bits of sport are definitely way behind business. Some bits are way ahead. Some bits of the military are way ahead. Some bits of the public sector are way ahead. Every everybody's sitting around look I mean, that looking over the fence at other environments is huge. I mean, I've got to say doing this podcast is awesome for me because I'm getting to speak, getting to speak to people from completely different places and learning so much. That's why I, that's why I end up, you know, you get slightly obsessed about it, don't you? But looking at looking over the fence at other stuff is just it's brilliant. But it but what really strikes me is when you talk to everybody, they think they're rubbish and everyone else is great.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:38:17]:
Yeah. The, and and maybe not even looking over the fence, like dismantling the whole fence and turning it into something else. Yeah.

Simon Ursell [00:38:23]:
Yeah. Building a classroom

Mike Haines [00:38:25]:
out of it.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:38:26]:
Yes. I was literally waiting for other people to to lead and innovate, and we're missing opportunities ourselves. So, yeah, I think that's some of the stuff I've I've seen you talk about and do, Mike, is like, actually, like, can we be deadly serious about practicing these skills? Can we have a coach who's in the on the, you know, the broking floor with us who's actually helping us in the moment who's maybe asking great questions, giving us feedback like, yeah, can the can the brokers have coaches? Imagine that. That'd be great.

Simon Ursell [00:39:00]:
So does I mean, are there environments around breaking that you've seen you go, actually, this is pretty good. I mean, there must be some that are doing some stuff that's pretty cool.

Mike Haines [00:39:10]:
Yeah. Yeah. There are there are people that do it well.

Simon Ursell [00:39:14]:
What sort of things they're doing?

Mike Haines [00:39:15]:
Pretty much the same kind of thing that we've just talked about. We've talked, you know, we're talking about yes. You know, you get you get the the basic system, and then it's just how well they operate as a team. And again, that will be their communication. That will be the way that they're asking questions of their customers, getting good feedback, good, you know, good observation and noticing a lot of things. You know, that that's when you look at them. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Haines [00:39:41]:
Yeah. Yeah. You're you're doing alright. But I think just going back to looking over the fence, I I agree with it. But I again, I'll I'll I'll come back to the time achieved. You know, for example, yourself, Simon, you know, you you've you've got your your 2 days a week business, but then you decided you were gonna go and fill that time with helping 7 different companies, was it? I think you said.

Simon Ursell [00:40:05]:
Yeah. I've got 7 board advisory roles at the moment.

Mike Haines [00:40:09]:
Right. So we will we will we will fill that time if we have it. But, again, it's a very very it's a very valuable model. I I think the main the main part that I found with with my business coaching is if these guys are going to give any time to trying to improve, it has to be purposeful. If if I if I start talking about, you know, they they will understand, you know, yes, need to be better at communication, things like that, of course. But the but the underlying question that no one really no one really asked, but we all know it is, is it is it gonna make me more money? Because that's the point. You know, you can think of me wrong. I mean, you can look at it.

Mike Haines [00:40:52]:
You funnily enough, the better broker I became, the more money I make. Weird. Right?

Simon Ursell [00:40:58]:
Very strange.

Mike Haines [00:41:00]:
Yeah. Weird at all. But but it's actually having that it's it's, you know, taking that sniper lens away and actually probably thinking more helicopter if you like.

Simon Ursell [00:41:11]:
Yeah. So so, if they under if they have a purpose, like, what I'm trying to achieve is x. Money is a resource I can use to help me get there, but it's not what I'm going towards. And the training, purposeful training to get me to where I wanna go, That's massive, isn't it? Right. Rusty, I think you refer to to the 1% then, 99% of people are drifting along through life.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:41:41]:
They sleep walking through life, really, aren't they?

Simon Ursell [00:41:43]:
And you've got 1% of people who actually have a pretty good idea of what they're trying to do, and they tend to be the ones that are that are doing really well. So, yeah, I I I mean, hell yeah. Purpose is massive, isn't it? What's your purpose then, Mike? It's a mean question, isn't it?

Mike Haines [00:42:05]:
A bit spiteful.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:42:06]:
I mean, I do that.

Simon Ursell [00:42:08]:
Should I go go on, Rusty. You go first, then I'll go, and then we'll let we'll let Mike go after. I feel really bad now.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:42:15]:
I have been asked that question twice in the last 2 weeks, and it's like and both times I was a little bit shocked that they asked me the questions, but it's, you don't often get asked questions like that.

Mike Haines [00:42:27]:
That's good. I like it.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:42:29]:
This is

Simon Ursell [00:42:29]:
a cracking question. Okay. Well, mine is mine is mine is about poverty, social mobility. That's my purpose at the moment. My professional purpose is helping lifting people out of poverty. So I'm trying to build business, support people that are also trying to do that because I think that would solve a lot of the world's problems if we could do that. So that's my, that's my if I'm doing stuff that's helping that then, yeah. Having a good day.

Mike Haines [00:42:58]:
Yeah. It's pretty noble.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:43:00]:
Good. Yeah.

Simon Ursell [00:43:01]:
You don't have to believe me.

Mike Haines [00:43:03]:
I'd like to. I'd like to. Let's go with it.

Simon Ursell [00:43:07]:
No. It's true. I mean, my business is, you know, we're an environmental consultancy. We help people get planning permission. So we're building houses, roads, infrastructure, all sorts of stuff. And we're trying to do it in a way that doesn't damage the environment as much as it might have done if we hadn't been involved and enable it to happen so that people are getting more opportunities to have jobs, get around, do things. So that's, that's what that business is really trying to achieve. And I think it's great if you can do can I

Mike Haines [00:43:39]:
speak to the disc?

Simon Ursell [00:43:40]:
Yeah, well, it, yeah, he's bored, he's bored of me already.

Mike Haines [00:43:44]:
Oh, he's thinking.

Simon Ursell [00:43:47]:
But it is, it's, it actually really, I mean, that, that is really nice way of framing decision making as well, isn't it? So if we're making, if I'm making a decision, if the business is making a decision, if it's not doing that, then we won't do it. Makes life easier than that. And there where you go, and then it makes you happy.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:44:05]:
But sometimes you say yes or no, doesn't it?

Simon Ursell [00:44:08]:
I think so.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:44:09]:
I think without it, it's quite hard to say yes or no.

Simon Ursell [00:44:14]:
Yeah. Well, you you're generally gonna say yes if it makes you money, aren't you? But you don't know why. Not not really. I mean, that's I I don't know I don't know if I'm getting too deep and too profound here. I feel I feel like you I've stunned you to into silence with my with my overly worthy purpose. But it's, but it is real. I promise. The money

Mike Haines [00:44:36]:
I'd locked and loaded.

Simon Ursell [00:44:38]:
Yeah. I've got it on the wall.

Mike Haines [00:44:39]:
Golden grenade under us. Yeah.

Simon Ursell [00:44:43]:
But it's I mean, genuinely does sound as if you guys are, doing similar things. You know, your you might, you talk really well about your coaching, you know, and you're getting into, into schools, you're helping kids, you know, you're in academies and your I bet you're very good at it. You're also helping brokers, aren't you, to be better at what they do? It's all about people like you say, isn't it? I mean, it it sounds to me like you're just helping people. It's pretty cool.

Mike Haines [00:45:13]:
Yeah. I think I I agree with you. It's about helping people. The problem with that is is that it's very hard to say no if that's your wife.

Simon Ursell [00:45:22]:
Yeah. I hear that.

Mike Haines [00:45:23]:
And then you become super busy.

Simon Ursell [00:45:25]:
Yeah. Yes.

Mike Haines [00:45:27]:
Which is fine, by the way. You know, there's there's no problem with that. But then you probably have to keep an eye on your own emotional energy as to whether you're doing a a good job for people or whether you're just turning up. You know, we need quality, not quantity if you're trying to help people.

Simon Ursell [00:45:43]:
Yeah. I hear that. So back to Mia again, mindfulness. She's, she's very much trying to get me to be a little bit more selfish, not in a, not in a negative way, but in terms of doing things for myself so that I have more capacity to help other people. Because if you're just trying to do these things, trying to be noble and good about things, there's only so much you can do before you end up not being able to do any of it very well. So you do, you do need time to yourself, working on yourself, not sitting on your, on your backside watching cash in the attic, but doing things that are that are that are for you and and things that help you mentally recharge and regenerate and those kinds of things on. That's really important. So, yeah, I hear that too.

Simon Ursell [00:46:26]:
Yeah.

Mike Haines [00:46:27]:
Yeah. It gives more. You can give a better performance.

Simon Ursell [00:46:30]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's all about creating that space, isn't it? Got it, Rasti.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:46:35]:
Little jumps of happiness for me. That's my purpose. When you help people, you just get that little jump tone of, yippee, it was cool. I think leaning on the both of you, like, probably need to think about, my own, well-being better, and then also

Simon Ursell [00:46:53]:
Yes.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:46:55]:
And, I've been sleeping lots the last few days. And then And then, yeah, just like where does the family fit? Those are the bits of the puzzle that are always hard when you're into people and especially when you're self employed and you're showing up as important. And you don't get paid if you don't show up. Yeah. You're gonna show up. The puzzle. Again, the little glimpse of happiness with the family, with your own kind of, is important. That's why I'm doing a 72 hour fast to, it's good for my soul.

Simon Ursell [00:47:25]:
Is it? Yeah. I'm stressed about your 72 hour flight.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:47:29]:
I'm, I'm I'm exercising my, what's it called? Delayed gratification muscle. I've honestly seen so much nice food I wanna eat, and I have delayed gratification, which is remarkable really.

Simon Ursell [00:47:44]:
How are you feeling now on your on your fast? Just

Rusty Earnshaw [00:47:48]:
Once you've gone through the the bit where you feel like you've got the worst headache in the world, it's, it's amazing. Feel super alert. Feel a bit lighter. Yes. I love it. But obviously, like, elevating more.

Simon Ursell [00:48:06]:
Well, you got to eat at some point.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:48:08]:
Anyway, I appreciate we've gone on a tangent around my diet, and I appreciate that. Mike, if people wanna get in touch, they wanna reach out for you, where's the where's the place Apart from down the, CrossFit gym, are you LinkedIn, are you Twitter, are you TikTok?

Mike Haines [00:48:26]:
No. I'm the biggest dinosaur when it comes to anything like that. I'm I'm slightly proud, but I'm not on LinkedIn at once.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:48:35]:
Are you on LinkedIn?

Simon Ursell [00:48:36]:
Yeah. Well done.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:48:38]:
If anyone wants to reach out, just give me a shout and I'll give you Mike's number.

Mike Haines [00:48:42]:
Yeah. Via via Rusty. No. It's, I you know, I'd I'd like to do things word-of-mouth. I like to work with people that I'd like to work with, funnily enough, as we all do.

Simon Ursell [00:48:52]:
That sounds so good.

Mike Haines [00:48:53]:
Lucky lucky enough, I have the freedom freedom of choice now. Probably didn't have that so much as a broker. So no. I mean, if, yeah, people wanna reach out, please, via Rusty. It's, more than happy to help.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:49:07]:
Awesome work. Thanks for your time, over and out.

Simon Ursell [00:49:11]:
Thanks, Mike. See you.

Mike Haines [00:49:12]:
Thanks, guys.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:49:15]:
Oh, cool. That was pretty exciting. I feel like I've had a couple of lines of coke. I've been down hanging out with clients till about 2 weeks.

Simon Ursell [00:49:24]:
I can tell you've never done a couple of lines of coke, Rusty. That's

Rusty Earnshaw [00:49:27]:
I've just heard it. I've seen Wolf of Wall Street. I haven't actually. I feel like the the baby was up till half 4, then I got to get up at half 5. My wife kicked me out, and I went to work again. And and I just repeated that for 10 years of my life.

Simon Ursell [00:49:44]:
Yeah. Well, it it and it was good. It was great having Mike on there, wasn't it? I mean, thanks for thanks for getting him on because that was a that was a cracking pod. There's, like, loads and loads of stuff in there. But yeah. What

Rusty Earnshaw [00:49:56]:
Including his best ever broker training was his RFU level 2. What were, what were your 2 best pick the bets that you,

Simon Ursell [00:50:03]:
Well, I mean, I think first thing is I don't wanna be a broker. It sounded quite stressful. I don't think I could do 14 hour days. But, yeah, I I'd imagine if you if you had Mike on your on your shoulder as a breaker, you're gonna be doing a lot better than if you didn't. So, yeah, there's a couple of things. I think the, I really like the story he told about, the guys helping is running a bit hot, getting a bit stressed. And he led him to discover what the right way of him getting a pause so that he could choose how to behave afterwards. I thought that was really cool and it's so overlooked.

Simon Ursell [00:50:38]:
I think it's really nice. And plus he didn't try and tell him what to do. He just talked to him about it and and got him it's great coaching, isn't it? Got him to the point where he, he worked out what worked for him. And, hopefully, that is working for him even though, you know, he's gonna have a very clean face and wet hair. But it's a it's a pretty cool, it's a really nice example, I think, of how to build bounce back ability and resilience into people you're trying to support. Just find out what helps them pause so that they can't start just go off on on one side. I thought that was

Rusty Earnshaw [00:51:11]:
And it might have been a different outcome if Mike had just thrown the water himself. Yeah. And and if anyone wants to look up gazing, g a z I n g, and the All Blacks, they would have some kind of stuff like that to separate stimulus and response. What's your second what's your second thing?

Simon Ursell [00:51:27]:
Purposeful training. So I absolutely love the question, what do you wanna get better at? Because I'm not sure I can answer it, which is always means it's a great question because it's just got me thinking, what do I actually wanna get better at? And plus, I really love it because that question is forcing you to think about your why, what your purpose is, what do you wanna try and achieve? Say, what do I wanna get better at? Well, you know, I've I've shared a very big purpose of mine. Well, so what do I need to get better at in order to help that purpose? Well, what are the things I mean, I'm working on some things, public speaking and, helping businesses that I think are gonna help achieve that goal, those kinds of things. So I'm I'm I'm doing some things, but definitely, that that questions really provoke me. And I think

Rusty Earnshaw [00:52:15]:
it was kinda cool. When you've worked out when you've worked out what your top 3 are, you can rank them for me and write them down and send me them in the post. Alright?

Simon Ursell [00:52:24]:
Well, why would I rank them?

Rusty Earnshaw [00:52:27]:
Only because, again, I would do this quite a lot with teams just to kind of, you know, do it on your own. What are the top three skills this team needs? And just see how much clarity they have on, are they aligned on the stuff that's going to help them get better, really?

Simon Ursell [00:52:41]:
Wow.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:52:42]:
I might ask people in the team to write down the skills that 3 or 4 of the people in the team are working on, and, of course, they'll step back at me blankly. But, yeah, it's important, isn't it? If I wanna get better at catching, then probably need someone to pass the ball to me, don't I?

Simon Ursell [00:52:56]:
That's so true. I mean, how many people listening to this, if you're listening to this, just have a think. How many people that you work with or at an organization with do you know what they're trying to get better at? I bet it's none. If you've got one

Rusty Earnshaw [00:53:10]:
It's a none.

Simon Ursell [00:53:11]:
Well, really not done. If it's more than 1, you've got to be a vanishingly small number.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:53:15]:
This is the longest outro ever. You've been, like, obsessed with Mike's questions. It's ridiculous.

Simon Ursell [00:53:20]:
But he's kidding me. He's good at it.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:53:22]:
It's alright. Mustafa who?

Mike Haines [00:53:25]:
Come on.

Simon Ursell [00:53:26]:
Go on. You what are yours? What are yours? Come on.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:53:28]:
Oh, I I should go she has. Simon, knock knock.

Simon Ursell [00:53:31]:
Who's there?

Rusty Earnshaw [00:53:32]:
Mustafa.

Simon Ursell [00:53:33]:
Mustafa Saka?

Rusty Earnshaw [00:53:35]:
No. Mustafa who. 2 things for me. One purpose just helps you understand what to say yes or no to. It's pretty helpful.

Simon Ursell [00:53:45]:
Yep.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:53:45]:
Without aids, you're probably just meandering.

Simon Ursell [00:53:48]:
You don't know your answers to find out.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:53:49]:
Yeah. Yeah. Actually, probably the first person to speak about just the physical component of bounce back ability. So, you know, looking after yourself, sleep, water, exercise, taking yourself off to the gym, not only from a physical point of view, but also from a a mental point of view to maybe do some good thinking. So, yeah, there's my top 2.

Simon Ursell [00:54:10]:
Yeah, sure. That's going into my 1, 2, 3 ranking. The cast got myself better. Better at that.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:54:18]:
Yeah. That's

Simon Ursell [00:54:19]:
But, yeah, like, as I say, thanks for bringing Mike on. He was I thought he was absolutely brilliant. Another brilliant pod. Learned so much. Thank you.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:54:27]:
Awesome. Over now.

Simon Ursell [00:54:29]:
See you.

Mike Haines [00:54:30]:
Thanks so

Rusty Earnshaw [00:54:30]:
much for joining us on the Bands Back Building podcast with Simon in Bristol. We've really enjoyed your company. If you wanna reach out to us, Simon, where can they reach you?

Simon Ursell [00:54:40]:
LinkedIn's best place. Simon Ursel, u r, s for sugar, e, double l. Send me a message. Rusty, where can we find you?

Rusty Earnshaw [00:54:46]:
TikTok? No. Not really. LinkedIn, Russ Blanchaw. And then the same on Twitter, but please, ignore all my political thoughts.

Simon Ursell [00:54:54]:
Yeah. Second that.

Rusty Earnshaw [00:54:55]:
Over and out.